No, not every Israeli. Arabs are exempt, though the Druze do serve with distinction and there is a growing movement among Arab Christians to join. That being said, these are not extremists in any sense. They are in volunteer paramedic groups (hatzolah), burial societies such as those that clean up after terrorist attacks, etc. Unfortunately, these activities are not counted as service in place of the military when it comes to men (women have other options). The point is that they reject military service in a time of peace and could easily be seen as conscientious objectors from American standards. By their standards and views, they are performing an essential service in keeping Torah study alive. It has sustained the Jewish people through generations and tribulations.
BTW, please don't use the loaded term extremists to mean religious. Also, you've just dismissed just about every religious scholar with your last sentence. Are priests required to join the military? Imams? Scientists? On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 8:48 AM, Larry C. Lyons <[email protected]>wrote: > > Thing is that every Israeli is expected to serve. if the extremists > don't want to serve in the military, and object to the draft why not > have them serve in other ways, like road crews, paramedics, loading > trucks etc., All those things that would free up those more willing to > serve Israel and if necessary sacrifice themselves. Let the very brave > extremists sit behind the defense built by the others willing to do > what the extremists don't have the integrity to do. They live off the > work of others merely studying an old book. > > On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 8:29 AM, GMoney <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Interesting. > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Michael Dinowitz < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > >> I'm of a couple of minds on this. First we need to get some facts > stated: > >> 1. There are already a number of religious, even 'ultra-orthodox', in > the > >> military already. There are even special units designed to handle the > needs > >> of the religious while in the military. There are Yeshivas with programs > >> that combine learning with military service. > >> 2. The military does not want more religious in the military. They are > not > >> equipped to handle their needs. There are also many forces that are > >> confronting any attempt to move the religious into the military. You > have > >> the feminists who are forcing confrontations that break the religious > laws > >> of modesty. You have brass who do not want a huge influx of religious > >> officers, especially in the higher ranks. You have the anti-religious > who > >> see this as a perfect place to strip these 'ignorant orthodox' of their > >> 'medieval religious ideas'. The list goes on. > >> 3. While some of the 'ultra-orthodox' yeshivas are part of a program > that > >> combine learning with military, there are others who hold that learning > >> Torah is as important to the preservation of the state as those who > carry a > >> gun. They do not want the secular problems and forces of the military > >> getting in the way of that learning. Israel stands due to the Torah and > >> without the Torah, Israel will fall > >> 4. Lapid is an anti-religious dick. He's always been an anti-religious > >> dick. He takes great delight in it. Rather than try and work with the > >> programs that already exist, he's tearing them all down just to satisfy > his > >> own agenda. He sees a civil war as a good thing as it will get rid of > those > >> 'pesky religious'. No joke. > >> 5. In Jewish law, there are few laws more important than saving a life. > >> I've seen people run out of synagogue on Yom Kippur in order to jump in > a > >> car and race off to save someones life. They can break many religious > laws > >> to do that - and only that. > >> 6. This was not a vote of conscience, ideal, or popularity. It was > forced > >> along party lines with with strict party discipline in effect. One > person > >> breaking who broke ranks was severely punished for it. Even parties who > >> might have voted against it were 'forced' to due to deals with Lapid - > >> deals that got them into the ruling coalition. > >> > >> So my thoughts are that Lapid and those of his ilk have forced a crisis > >> that no one wants, bypassed the solutions already in place, bypassed any > >> attempt at compromise, and brought even more strife to Israel. If there > >> were a need for these students in the military then I'm all for forcing > >> them into one of the learning/military programs, but there is no need. > The > >> current military is of sufficient level to protect the state and the > >> reserves are more than adequate to supplement that. If someone sees > >> themselves as supporting the state by learning Torah while forgoing the > >> privileges that a military stint gives, then I see no reason to force > them > >> - as long as they are not needed for the physical defense of the people. > >> > >> Personally, I think that every religious person of the allowable age > should > >> go into the military right away. This will force the military's hand and > >> they will either have to cope the the supply/demand or send them all > home. > >> If they cope, then the power shift in Israeli society due to so many > >> religious in the military and then in places they go after the military > >> (politics, police, etc) will reshape the entire country - and no one > wants > >> that. > >> > >> BTW, the term ultra-orthodox is a loaded one and is used to negatively > >> portray the religious in different ways. The telegraph stated that this > was > >> a secular vs. ultra-orthodox battle, implying that the ultra-orthodox > >> represented ALL religious and compounded their portrayal by saying that > the > >> ultra-orthodox was only 10%, implying that the secular was 90%. While > one > >> may be able to say that the ultra-orthodox is 10% (as represented by a > >> specific Yeshiva based lifestyle), this percentage does NOT include all > of > >> the other orthodox who are not considered ultra. In other words, the > >> telegraph is playing fast and loose here with the facts. > >> > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 12:18 PM, GMoney <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> > > >> > http://tinyurl.com/pcldosy > >> > > >> > Dino, your thoughts? > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:369567 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
