Then take a look at what is happening in South Africa as to "Land Reform" or Land re-apportionment" as some refer to the practice of moving all whites off their land and parceling it out to the Tribal blacks who do not know what to do with it.
====================================== Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com ISP rated: http://www.forta.com/cf/isp/isp.cfm?isp_id=772 ====================================== If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done! ----- Original Message ----- From: "S.Isaac Dealey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 6:39 PM Subject: Re: Re: Re: RE: What would you do if you won PowerBall? | No, I addressed that in the previous message: | | "where every square meter of land belongs to someone who's | unwilling | to share in which case my answer is to ration the land | and/or provide | those without any (land) transportation to someplace | else..." | | Someplace else may be some land of their own or some land | that someone else is willing to share it doesn't really | matter much. Though given my druthers the possibility exists | that I might actually institude land rationing if I were in | a position of government. We already institute land | rationing for other reasons, mostly environmental. National | parks which are preserved in order to protect endangered | species to try and help maintain a certain amount of | vanishing bio-diversity. Imho people and their living | conditions are just as important and as such land-rationing | as a matter of government policy shouldn't be considered | beyond the pale (even though self-regulating economic | factors are liable to limit the gains from such a policy). | I'm not saying it would be a perfect system or that anyone | is capable of devising a perfect system, but I suspect for | many (impoverished) people it would be a lot better than it | is now and not insurmountably cruel to the (wealthy) people | it would restrict. | | Isaac | | > Methinks your advocacy assumes that the impoverished have | > available to them | > property, and have property rights, which in fact few of | > them do. The ones that | > do have property, or property rights actually do find | > themselves | > self-supporting. | | > ====================================== | > Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! | > For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com | > ISP rated: http://www.forta.com/cf/isp/isp.cfm?isp_id=772 | > ====================================== | > If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't | > done! | | > ----- Original Message ----- | > From: "s. isaac dealey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:02 PM | > Subject: RE: Re: Re: RE: What would you do if you won | > PowerBall? | | | > | I'd say you'd have to qualify that statement as "most | > adults | > _in_a_modern_culture_ who like the idea don't manage to | > implement", and my | > suspicion is that this stems from two things, the one | > being that either they're | > really into all their "modern conveniences" (not | > necessarily food related) which | > require them to spend larger amounts of time working and | > hence neglecting the | > possibility of growing their food and 2) that making a | > lifestyle change from the | > modern mainstream to one of communal self-sufficiency is | > an arduous ordeal in | > and of itself -- which is my issue, exacerbated by the | > fact that I have 3 kids | > and a rather ... gross ... child support problem. | > | | > | Where the impoverished peoples of third world countries | > are concerned, however | > ... what have they got to lose? ... It's also possible for | > able-boddied adults | > to grow enough food to feed themselves with a rather small | > investment of time | > when they're not also managing livestock and / or trying | > to grow food to sell | > and therefore want to grow as much as possible to make the | > most money (which | > takes them back to the sweat-shop place sort of)... So if | > they grew their own | > food the chances are good that parents would be able to | > grow enough food with a | > manageable investment of their time and energy to feed | > both the children and the | > grandparents who can care for the children who are too | > young to help with the | > growing. As the children grow up they of course have to | > learn how to do the | > growing but nobody's demanding that they work themselves | > to the bone to make | > t-shirts and sandals for self-absorbed Americans. | > | | > | Isaac | > | | > | Original Message ----------------------- | > | I have a prolific backyard veggie garden, will that | > qualify? :-) | > | | > | ====================================== | > | Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! | > | For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com | > | ISP rated: | > http://www.forta.com/cf/isp/isp.cfm?isp_id=772 | > | ====================================== | > | If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't | > done! | > | | > | ----- Original Message ----- | > | From: "Dana Tierney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | > | To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | > | Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:19 PM | > | Subject: Re: Re: RE: What would you do if you won | > PowerBall? | > | | > | | > | | I agree but most adults who like the idea dont manage | > to implement... bit | > | | much to expect of children | > | | | > | | s. isaac dealey writes: | > | | | > | | > I suppose ultimately that I don't understand why | > people can't grow their | > own | > | food -- or just live tribally, you know, hunter/gatherer | > -- with the possible | > | exception of being on a small island where every square | > meter of land belongs | > to | > | someone who's unwilling to share in which case my answer | > is to ration the land | > | and/or provide those without any transportation to | > someplace else... | > | | > | > | | > I don't think personally that I'd like to go back to | > an entirely | > | pre-agricultural state, because I suspect it's a lot | > easier to get by and have | > | food if you grow it intentionally, but, the fact that | > we're still here at all | > is | > | absolute proof that it can be done if necessary. In some | > ways growing your own | > | food is even better than having it grown by large | > corporate agro-businesses | > and | > | shipped hundreds or thousands of miles to the grocery in | > big diesel trucks. | > | Personally I'd really like to go back to living | > communally and growing our own | > | food at least for myself, although I don't expect | > everyone to do that. I | > | certainly think that would be a step up from a sweat | > shop. | > | | > | > | | > Isaac | > | | > | > | | > Original Message ----------------------- | > | | > If the alternative is starvation most people are | > willing to work. Be nice | > | | > if children didnt have to face that choice. | > | | > | > | | > William Wheatley writes: | > | | > | > | | > > Play devils advocate what about the kids who have | > to have a job and | > money | > | in | > | | > > order to survive for whatever reason? | > | | > > | > | | > > I was listening to a piece on npr where a kid was | > saying (via | > translator) | > | | > > how he needed to work. When the inspector (or | > whatever the proper title | > | is) | > | | > > tried to shut the place down he fired the underage | > kid who was then | > | screwed | > | | > > since they didn't have the money to pay for food | > and such. They also | > | talked | > | | > > about child labor unions so the kids could make | > good $$. If there is | > | nothing | > | | > > else for a child to do and they have to work why | > should we hold the | > | | > > children, who WILLINGLY want to work , back and | > limit them. There is no | > | | > > social security in those countries no foster care | > what would become of | > | them | > | | > > if they were unable to work and provide for | > themselves. | > | | > > | > | | > > ----- Original Message ----- | > | | > > From: "s. isaac dealey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | > | | > > To: "CF-Community" | > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | > | | > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:31 PM | > | | > > Subject: RE: RE: What would you do if you won | > PowerBall? | > | | > > | > | | > > | > | | > > > How about buying the Gap (or some other large | > US-grown corp) and | > forcing | > | | > > them to stop actively contributing to sweat shops | > in third world | > | countries? | > | | > > > | > | | > > > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=U | > TF-8&q=area+code+map | > | | > > > | > | | > > > | > | | > > | > | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/audiovideo/programmes/panoram | > a/archive/970385.stm | > | | > > > | > | | > > > Isaac | > | | > > > | > | | > > > Original Message ----------------------- | > | | > > > OK then I started this so here is mine. | > | | > > > | > | | > > > In no particular order (most likely all at once) | > | | > > > | > | | > > > - I would open an account for my grandmother to | > do with what she wants | > | as | > | | > > > she has supported me (bailed me out) for most of | > my life. | > | | > > > - Buy a house on an island and retire with my | > friends and family | > | | > > > - Maybe a mountain retreat somewhere with a huge | > telescope | > | | > > > - Visit the Great Wall of China | > | | > > > - Pay the Russians a million dollars to take me | > to space (maybe :)) | > | | > > > - College for my kids (this includes some | > friends kids) | > | | > > > - I would like to buy a huge piece of the rain | > forest that I will | > never | > | | > > burn | > | | > > > or run off the natives. | > | | > > > - Buy Old Navy and force them to carry cloths | > for everyone. | > | | > > > | > | | > > > There is probably more. | > | | > > > | > | | > > > Rick Eidson | > | | > > > | > | | > > > -----Original Message----- | > | | > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | > | | > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 11:42 AM | > | | > > > To: CF-Community | > | | > > > Subject: Re: What would you do if you won | > PowerBall? | > | | > > > | > | | > > > off the top, in no particular order: | > | | > > > | > | | > > > - keep working until I can pass knowledge on to | > a successor | > | | > > > - fix up the house, just the way we want it | > | | > > > (it's "home", so don't want to move to another | > place, maybe just | > expand) | > | | > > > - buy homes for kids, relatives, friends, so | > they always have a roof | > | over | > | | > > > - donate enough money to a particular charitable | > org (one my Mom | > worked | > | | > > > with) | > | | > > > for them to build a school with her name on it | > | | > > > - build a homeless shelter w/ job training | > center | > | | > > > - open a company to hire the successful grads of | > the job center | > | | > > > - build an apartment complex to house the | > workers | > | | > > > - travel, travel, travel | > | | > > > - study | > | | > > > - volunteer | > | | > > > - pray | > | | > > > - get really physically fit | > | | > > > - watch videos | > | | > > > - sleep late sometimes, then start the day by | > making love | > | | > > > instead of waking up early to go to work | > | | > > > | > | | > > > -Ben | > | | > > > | > | | > > > | > | | > > > > http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/news/23827 | > 47/detail.html | > | | > > > > | > | | > > > > | > | | > > > > Rick | > | | > > > > | > | | > > > | > | | > > > | > | | > > > | > | | > > | > | | > | > | | > | > | | | > | | > | | > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | > ~~~~~~~~~~~| | > Archives: | > http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 | > Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index. | > cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 | | > Get the mailserver that powers this list at | > http://www.coolfusion.com | | > Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/uns | > ubscribe.cfm?user=633.558.5 | | | | | S. 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