No, I addressed that in the previous message: "where every square meter of land belongs to someone who's unwilling to share in which case my answer is to ration the land and/or provide those without any (land) transportation to someplace else..."
Someplace else may be some land of their own or some land that someone else is willing to share it doesn't really matter much. Though given my druthers the possibility exists that I might actually institude land rationing if I were in a position of government. We already institute land rationing for other reasons, mostly environmental. National parks which are preserved in order to protect endangered species to try and help maintain a certain amount of vanishing bio-diversity. Imho people and their living conditions are just as important and as such land-rationing as a matter of government policy shouldn't be considered beyond the pale (even though self-regulating economic factors are liable to limit the gains from such a policy). I'm not saying it would be a perfect system or that anyone is capable of devising a perfect system, but I suspect for many (impoverished) people it would be a lot better than it is now and not insurmountably cruel to the (wealthy) people it would restrict. Isaac > Methinks your advocacy assumes that the impoverished have > available to them > property, and have property rights, which in fact few of > them do. The ones that > do have property, or property rights actually do find > themselves > self-supporting. > ====================================== > Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! > For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com > ISP rated: http://www.forta.com/cf/isp/isp.cfm?isp_id=772 > ====================================== > If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't > done! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "s. isaac dealey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:02 PM > Subject: RE: Re: Re: RE: What would you do if you won > PowerBall? > | I'd say you'd have to qualify that statement as "most > adults > _in_a_modern_culture_ who like the idea don't manage to > implement", and my > suspicion is that this stems from two things, the one > being that either they're > really into all their "modern conveniences" (not > necessarily food related) which > require them to spend larger amounts of time working and > hence neglecting the > possibility of growing their food and 2) that making a > lifestyle change from the > modern mainstream to one of communal self-sufficiency is > an arduous ordeal in > and of itself -- which is my issue, exacerbated by the > fact that I have 3 kids > and a rather ... gross ... child support problem. > | > | Where the impoverished peoples of third world countries > are concerned, however > ... what have they got to lose? ... It's also possible for > able-boddied adults > to grow enough food to feed themselves with a rather small > investment of time > when they're not also managing livestock and / or trying > to grow food to sell > and therefore want to grow as much as possible to make the > most money (which > takes them back to the sweat-shop place sort of)... So if > they grew their own > food the chances are good that parents would be able to > grow enough food with a > manageable investment of their time and energy to feed > both the children and the > grandparents who can care for the children who are too > young to help with the > growing. As the children grow up they of course have to > learn how to do the > growing but nobody's demanding that they work themselves > to the bone to make > t-shirts and sandals for self-absorbed Americans. > | > | Isaac > | > | Original Message ----------------------- > | I have a prolific backyard veggie garden, will that > qualify? :-) > | > | ====================================== > | Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! > | For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com > | ISP rated: > http://www.forta.com/cf/isp/isp.cfm?isp_id=772 > | ====================================== > | If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't > done! > | > | ----- Original Message ----- > | From: "Dana Tierney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > | To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > | Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:19 PM > | Subject: Re: Re: RE: What would you do if you won > PowerBall? > | > | > | | I agree but most adults who like the idea dont manage > to implement... bit > | | much to expect of children > | | > | | s. isaac dealey writes: > | | > | | > I suppose ultimately that I don't understand why > people can't grow their > own > | food -- or just live tribally, you know, hunter/gatherer > -- with the possible > | exception of being on a small island where every square > meter of land belongs > to > | someone who's unwilling to share in which case my answer > is to ration the land > | and/or provide those without any transportation to > someplace else... > | | > > | | > I don't think personally that I'd like to go back to > an entirely > | pre-agricultural state, because I suspect it's a lot > easier to get by and have > | food if you grow it intentionally, but, the fact that > we're still here at all > is > | absolute proof that it can be done if necessary. In some > ways growing your own > | food is even better than having it grown by large > corporate agro-businesses > and > | shipped hundreds or thousands of miles to the grocery in > big diesel trucks. > | Personally I'd really like to go back to living > communally and growing our own > | food at least for myself, although I don't expect > everyone to do that. I > | certainly think that would be a step up from a sweat > shop. > | | > > | | > Isaac > | | > > | | > Original Message ----------------------- > | | > If the alternative is starvation most people are > willing to work. Be nice > | | > if children didnt have to face that choice. > | | > > | | > William Wheatley writes: > | | > > | | > > Play devils advocate what about the kids who have > to have a job and > money > | in > | | > > order to survive for whatever reason? > | | > > > | | > > I was listening to a piece on npr where a kid was > saying (via > translator) > | | > > how he needed to work. When the inspector (or > whatever the proper title > | is) > | | > > tried to shut the place down he fired the underage > kid who was then > | screwed > | | > > since they didn't have the money to pay for food > and such. They also > | talked > | | > > about child labor unions so the kids could make > good $$. If there is > | nothing > | | > > else for a child to do and they have to work why > should we hold the > | | > > children, who WILLINGLY want to work , back and > limit them. There is no > | | > > social security in those countries no foster care > what would become of > | them > | | > > if they were unable to work and provide for > themselves. > | | > > > | | > > ----- Original Message ----- > | | > > From: "s. isaac dealey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > | | > > To: "CF-Community" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > | | > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:31 PM > | | > > Subject: RE: RE: What would you do if you won > PowerBall? > | | > > > | | > > > | | > > > How about buying the Gap (or some other large > US-grown corp) and > forcing > | | > > them to stop actively contributing to sweat shops > in third world > | countries? > | | > > > > | | > > > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=U > TF-8&q=area+code+map > | | > > > > | | > > > > | | > > > | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/audiovideo/programmes/panoram > a/archive/970385.stm > | | > > > > | | > > > Isaac > | | > > > > | | > > > Original Message ----------------------- > | | > > > OK then I started this so here is mine. > | | > > > > | | > > > In no particular order (most likely all at once) > | | > > > > | | > > > - I would open an account for my grandmother to > do with what she wants > | as > | | > > > she has supported me (bailed me out) for most of > my life. > | | > > > - Buy a house on an island and retire with my > friends and family > | | > > > - Maybe a mountain retreat somewhere with a huge > telescope > | | > > > - Visit the Great Wall of China > | | > > > - Pay the Russians a million dollars to take me > to space (maybe :)) > | | > > > - College for my kids (this includes some > friends kids) > | | > > > - I would like to buy a huge piece of the rain > forest that I will > never > | | > > burn > | | > > > or run off the natives. > | | > > > - Buy Old Navy and force them to carry cloths > for everyone. > | | > > > > | | > > > There is probably more. > | | > > > > | | > > > Rick Eidson > | | > > > > | | > > > -----Original Message----- > | | > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > | | > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 11:42 AM > | | > > > To: CF-Community > | | > > > Subject: Re: What would you do if you won > PowerBall? > | | > > > > | | > > > off the top, in no particular order: > | | > > > > | | > > > - keep working until I can pass knowledge on to > a successor > | | > > > - fix up the house, just the way we want it > | | > > > (it's "home", so don't want to move to another > place, maybe just > expand) > | | > > > - buy homes for kids, relatives, friends, so > they always have a roof > | over > | | > > > - donate enough money to a particular charitable > org (one my Mom > worked > | | > > > with) > | | > > > for them to build a school with her name on it > | | > > > - build a homeless shelter w/ job training > center > | | > > > - open a company to hire the successful grads of > the job center > | | > > > - build an apartment complex to house the > workers > | | > > > - travel, travel, travel > | | > > > - study > | | > > > - volunteer > | | > > > - pray > | | > > > - get really physically fit > | | > > > - watch videos > | | > > > - sleep late sometimes, then start the day by > making love > | | > > > instead of waking up early to go to work > | | > > > > | | > > > -Ben > | | > > > > | | > > > > | | > > > > http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/news/23827 > 47/detail.html > | | > > > > > | | > > > > > | | > > > > Rick > | | > > > > > | | > > > > | | > > > > | | > > > > | | > > > | | > > | | > > | | > | > | > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~~~~~~~~~~~| > Archives: > http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 > Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index. > cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 > Get the mailserver that powers this list at > http://www.coolfusion.com > Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/uns > ubscribe.cfm?user=633.558.5 S. Isaac Dealey 972-490-6624 Team Macromedia Volunteer http://www.macromedia.com/go/team Chief Architect, Tapestry CMS http://products.turnkey.to OnTap IS Opensource http://www.turnkey.to/ontap ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
