Also in Zimbabwe - creating a food shortage of crisis proportions... -Ben
> Then take a look at what is happening in South Africa as to "Land Reform" or > Land re-apportionment" as some refer to the practice of moving all whites off > their land and parceling it out to the Tribal blacks who do not know what to do > with it. > > ====================================== > Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! > For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com > ISP rated: http://www.forta.com/cf/isp/isp.cfm?isp_id=772 > ====================================== > If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "S.Isaac Dealey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 6:39 PM > Subject: Re: Re: Re: RE: What would you do if you won PowerBall? > > > | No, I addressed that in the previous message: > | > | "where every square meter of land belongs to someone who's > | unwilling > | to share in which case my answer is to ration the land > | and/or provide > | those without any (land) transportation to someplace > | else..." > | > | Someplace else may be some land of their own or some land > | that someone else is willing to share it doesn't really > | matter much. Though given my druthers the possibility exists > | that I might actually institude land rationing if I were in > | a position of government. We already institute land > | rationing for other reasons, mostly environmental. National > | parks which are preserved in order to protect endangered > | species to try and help maintain a certain amount of > | vanishing bio-diversity. Imho people and their living > | conditions are just as important and as such land-rationing > | as a matter of government policy shouldn't be considered > | beyond the pale (even though self-regulating economic > | factors are liable to limit the gains from such a policy). > | I'm not saying it would be a perfect system or that anyone > | is capable of devising a perfect system, but I suspect for > | many (impoverished) people it would be a lot better than it > | is now and not insurmountably cruel to the (wealthy) people > | it would restrict. > | > | Isaac > | > | > Methinks your advocacy assumes that the impoverished have > | > available to them > | > property, and have property rights, which in fact few of > | > them do. The ones that > | > do have property, or property rights actually do find > | > themselves > | > self-supporting. > | > | > ====================================== > | > Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! > | > For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com > | > ISP rated: http://www.forta.com/cf/isp/isp.cfm?isp_id=772 > | > ====================================== > | > If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't > | > done! > | > | > ----- Original Message ----- > | > From: "s. isaac dealey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > | > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > | > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:02 PM > | > Subject: RE: Re: Re: RE: What would you do if you won > | > PowerBall? > | > | > | > | I'd say you'd have to qualify that statement as "most > | > adults > | > _in_a_modern_culture_ who like the idea don't manage to > | > implement", and my > | > suspicion is that this stems from two things, the one > | > being that either they're > | > really into all their "modern conveniences" (not > | > necessarily food related) which > | > require them to spend larger amounts of time working and > | > hence neglecting the > | > possibility of growing their food and 2) that making a > | > lifestyle change from the > | > modern mainstream to one of communal self-sufficiency is > | > an arduous ordeal in > | > and of itself -- which is my issue, exacerbated by the > | > fact that I have 3 kids > | > and a rather ... gross ... child support problem. > | > | > | > | Where the impoverished peoples of third world countries > | > are concerned, however > | > ... what have they got to lose? ... It's also possible for > | > able-boddied adults > | > to grow enough food to feed themselves with a rather small > | > investment of time > | > when they're not also managing livestock and / or trying > | > to grow food to sell > | > and therefore want to grow as much as possible to make the > | > most money (which > | > takes them back to the sweat-shop place sort of)... So if > | > they grew their own > | > food the chances are good that parents would be able to > | > grow enough food with a > | > manageable investment of their time and energy to feed > | > both the children and the > | > grandparents who can care for the children who are too > | > young to help with the > | > growing. As the children grow up they of course have to > | > learn how to do the > | > growing but nobody's demanding that they work themselves > | > to the bone to make > | > t-shirts and sandals for self-absorbed Americans. > | > | > | > | Isaac > | > | > | > | Original Message ----------------------- > | > | I have a prolific backyard veggie garden, will that > | > qualify? :-) > | > | > | > | ====================================== > | > | Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway! > | > | For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com > | > | ISP rated: > | > http://www.forta.com/cf/isp/isp.cfm?isp_id=772 > | > | ====================================== > | > | If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't > | > done! > | > | > | > | ----- Original Message ----- > | > | From: "Dana Tierney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > | > | To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > | > | Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:19 PM > | > | Subject: Re: Re: RE: What would you do if you won > | > PowerBall? > | > | > | > | > | > | | I agree but most adults who like the idea dont manage > | > to implement... bit > | > | | much to expect of children > | > | | > | > | | s. isaac dealey writes: > | > | | > | > | | > I suppose ultimately that I don't understand why > | > people can't grow their > | > own > | > | food -- or just live tribally, you know, hunter/gatherer > | > -- with the possible > | > | exception of being on a small island where every square > | > meter of land belongs > | > to > | > | someone who's unwilling to share in which case my answer > | > is to ration the land > | > | and/or provide those without any transportation to > | > someplace else... > | > | | > > | > | | > I don't think personally that I'd like to go back to > | > an entirely > | > | pre-agricultural state, because I suspect it's a lot > | > easier to get by and have > | > | food if you grow it intentionally, but, the fact that > | > we're still here at all > | > is > | > | absolute proof that it can be done if necessary. In some > | > ways growing your own > | > | food is even better than having it grown by large > | > corporate agro-businesses > | > and > | > | shipped hundreds or thousands of miles to the grocery in > | > big diesel trucks. > | > | Personally I'd really like to go back to living > | > communally and growing our own > | > | food at least for myself, although I don't expect > | > everyone to do that. I > | > | certainly think that would be a step up from a sweat > | > shop. > | > | | > > | > | | > Isaac > | > | | > > | > | | > Original Message ----------------------- > | > | | > If the alternative is starvation most people are > | > willing to work. Be nice > | > | | > if children didnt have to face that choice. > | > | | > > | > | | > William Wheatley writes: > | > | | > > | > | | > > Play devils advocate what about the kids who have > | > to have a job and > | > money > | > | in > | > | | > > order to survive for whatever reason? > | > | | > > > | > | | > > I was listening to a piece on npr where a kid was > | > saying (via > | > translator) > | > | | > > how he needed to work. When the inspector (or > | > whatever the proper title > | > | is) > | > | | > > tried to shut the place down he fired the underage > | > kid who was then > | > | screwed > | > | | > > since they didn't have the money to pay for food > | > and such. They also > | > | talked > | > | | > > about child labor unions so the kids could make > | > good $$. If there is > | > | nothing > | > | | > > else for a child to do and they have to work why > | > should we hold the > | > | | > > children, who WILLINGLY want to work , back and > | > limit them. There is no > | > | | > > social security in those countries no foster care > | > what would become of > | > | them > | > | | > > if they were unable to work and provide for > | > themselves. > | > | | > > > | > | | > > ----- Original Message ----- > | > | | > > From: "s. isaac dealey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > | > | | > > To: "CF-Community" > | > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > | > | | > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:31 PM > | > | | > > Subject: RE: RE: What would you do if you won > | > PowerBall? > | > | | > > > | > | | > > > | > | | > > > How about buying the Gap (or some other large > | > US-grown corp) and > | > forcing > | > | | > > them to stop actively contributing to sweat shops > | > in third world > | > | countries? > | > | | > > > > | > | | > > > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=U > | > TF-8&q=area+code+map > | > | | > > > > | > | | > > > > | > | | > > > | > | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/audiovideo/programmes/panoram > | > a/archive/970385.stm > | > | | > > > > | > | | > > > Isaac > | > | | > > > > | > | | > > > Original Message ----------------------- > | > | | > > > OK then I started this so here is mine. > | > | | > > > > | > | | > > > In no particular order (most likely all at once) > | > | | > > > > | > | | > > > - I would open an account for my grandmother to > | > do with what she wants > | > | as > | > | | > > > she has supported me (bailed me out) for most of > | > my life. > | > | | > > > - Buy a house on an island and retire with my > | > friends and family > | > | | > > > - Maybe a mountain retreat somewhere with a huge > | > telescope > | > | | > > > - Visit the Great Wall of China > | > | | > > > - Pay the Russians a million dollars to take me > | > to space (maybe :)) > | > | | > > > - College for my kids (this includes some > | > friends kids) > | > | | > > > - I would like to buy a huge piece of the rain > | > forest that I will > | > never > | > | | > > burn > | > | | > > > or run off the natives. > | > | | > > > - Buy Old Navy and force them to carry cloths > | > for everyone. > | > | | > > > > | > | | > > > There is probably more. > | > | | > > > > | > | | > > > Rick Eidson > | > | | > > > > | > | | > > > -----Original Message----- > | > | | > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > | > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > | > | | > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 11:42 AM > | > | | > > > To: CF-Community > | > | | > > > Subject: Re: What would you do if you won > | > PowerBall? > | > | | > > > > | > | | > > > off the top, in no particular order: > | > | | > > > > | > | | > > > - keep working until I can pass knowledge on to > | > a successor > | > | | > > > - fix up the house, just the way we want it > | > | | > > > (it's "home", so don't want to move to another > | > place, maybe just > | > expand) > | > | | > > > - buy homes for kids, relatives, friends, so > | > they always have a roof > | > | over > | > | | > > > - donate enough money to a particular charitable > | > org (one my Mom > | > worked > | > | | > > > with) > | > | | > > > for them to build a school with her name on it > | > | | > > > - build a homeless shelter w/ job training > | > center > | > | | > > > - open a company to hire the successful grads of > | > the job center > | > | | > > > - build an apartment complex to house the > | > workers > | > | | > > > - travel, travel, travel > | > | | > > > - study > | > | | > > > - volunteer > | > | | > > > - pray > | > | | > > > - get really physically fit > | > | | > > > - watch videos > | > | | > > > - sleep late sometimes, then start the day by > | > making love > | > | | > > > instead of waking up early to go to work > | > | | > > > > | > | | > > > -Ben > | > | | > > > > | > | | > > > > | > | | > > > > http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/news/23827 > | > 47/detail.html > | > | | > > > > > | > | | > > > > > | > | | > > > > Rick > | > | | > > > > > | > | | > > > > | > | | > > > > | > | | > > > > | > | | > > > | > | | > > | > | | > > | > | | > | > | > | > | > | > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > | > ~~~~~~~~~~~| > | > Archives: > | > http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 > | > Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index. > | > cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 > | > | > Get the mailserver that powers this list at > | > http://www.coolfusion.com > | > | > Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/uns > | > ubscribe.cfm?user=633.558.5 > | > | > | > | > | S. 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