Phillip M. Vector wrote: > Jeffry Houser wrote: >> Phillip M. Vector wrote: >>> IMHO, asking for a degree for a programmer is not worth anything. If you >>> are 30 or older, what they were teaching in school when you were 20 >>> isn't what is in use now. >> When I was in college for a CS degree (~10 years ago) most of my >> co-students were 10 years older than me. You can't really judge the >> quality of their schooling by someone's age. Many people have degrees >> that didn't get them in their early 20s right after high school. > > You missed the point. I wasn't using ages, but timeframes. > > Tell me. If you were to take what you learned in school 10 years ago > when you got your CS degree, with no other knowledge gained in the > workplace, could you make a living as a programmer? My guess would be no.
You are right I did mis-read your original point. But, that said I was able to make a living as a programmer upon graduation of college. I have no doubt I could do the same if I were graduating today. >>> I mean, When was the last time you programed >>> an app in fortran? I mean, the only thing your degree shows at that >>> point is that you had rich parents who paid for your college, you worked >>> your way through college (and therefore, probably scraped by) or you >>> took out a student loan (and are probably now in debt from it). >> I think you're missing the point. A degree shows commitment. It >> shows your ability to start something and follow it through to the end. >> Sometimes that is what many employers are looking for. > > So someone who is poor and isn't willing to go into debt to get a degree > isn't commited to improving him/her self? Couldn't you show commitment > by being at the same job for 4 years? Dare I say that it shows MORE > commitment in that case? Not really. College is a choice. Having a job is usually a necessity. >> What has changed in computer programming over the past 20 years? Not >> much. The tools are a bit different. The medium of delivery is a bit >> different, but underlying concepts are the same. This is the type of >> thing that might have been covered in a history of computer programming >> course. ;) > > You can't be serious. Really. That must be enclosed in <scarcasam> > tags.. Right? Nope, dead serious. Someone else on this thread brought up the same point. > You can't tell me BASIC is the same as ColdFusion. You can't tell me > Fidonet was the same as the Internet. I haven't programed in LOGO since > the early 80's. I'd be laughed out of the office if I went looking for a > job as a LOGO master. :) Basic, ColdFusion, and Logo are all practical implementation of concepts. The concepts remain relatively stable. I have no doubt that you could use programming concepts you learned from BASIC and apply them to ColdFusion development, though. >> Unfortunately, A lot of people I've spoken to went through >> curriculum's that concentrate on the language and not on the basic >> programming concepts. > > Because the basic concepts of programing doesn't really need a course. > It's not that difficult to know what a loop is or you need a command to > print something on the screen. Programming concepts go well beyond looping constructs, and not all of them are 'easy'. Someone mentioned Big O notation, and that is a good example of something you don't just 'pick up' on the job. Sorting concepts are something else with a bit more practical application. When you have to create your own custom sorting algorithm for an array of CFCs. Do you use heap sort, bubble sort, or quick sort? What if you're trying to wrap your head around a complicated Boolean condition, would you think to try a K map? >> Learning Java w/o learning about encapsulation is gonna hurt you down >> the line when you have to do something in a language other than Java. > > Ok.. I'll admit it. I don't know what encapsulation is. At the risk of sounding glib, I'm not surprised. > I don't know the > word. However, that doesn't mean I can't learn it on the job No argument here. The question is, do I want to hire someone to 'learn it on the job'? In some cases, I do. In some cases I want something with the background. It depends on the job. -- Jeffry Houser, Technical Entrepreneur, Software Developer, Author, Recording Engineer AIM: Reboog711 | Phone: 1-203-379-0773 -- My Company: <http://www.dot-com-it.com> My Podcast: <http://www.theflexshow.com> My Blog: <http://www.jeffryhouser.com> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Get involved in the latest ColdFusion discussions, product development sharing, and articles on the Adobe Labs wiki. http://labs/adobe.com/wiki/index.php/ColdFusion_8 Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3428 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
