Some collective representation for IT workers has its advantages and I am sure disadvantages as well. One thing that has always annoyed me is how IT workers are treated by the tax man vs some other occupations and I think a collective representation could have the power in numbers to change things like that.
On Feb 3, 2008 2:36 PM, William Seiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I agree that having a union would be good for working with dead beat > clients > as well as with obtaining good contracts, but a union should go further. > To > a client, a union has become the essence of 'good training'. Would we > have > an apprentice system? Would we develop 'union programming standards'? > > I think that having a union is a step in the right direction, but it is a > long road to get there. Maybe we can have a poll to see how many people > would support it. > > In the mean time I would suggest that everyone have access to a lawyer or > a > lawyer system (pre-paid legal). This way you can have a lawyer draft a > letter when you aren't paid, and you can have your 'basic' contract > reviewed. > > Regarding contracts. Does anyone have any contract examples that have > worked well that they would share with the rest of us? > > William > > -- > William E. Seiter > > Have you ever read a book that changed your life? > Go to: www.winninginthemargins.com > Enter passkey: goldengrove > > Web Developer / ColdFusion Programmer > http://William.Seiter.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Vincent Cannady [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 10:10 AM > To: CF-Jobs-Talk > Subject: Re: Dead Beat Clients. > > Hi Matt, > > From what I read you have never had many contracts but I can vouch for > what > Angry Housewife says that I too have been paid when I go client locations > to > work but when I am up at three o clock in the morning doing work and > submit > for those hours I never seem to get paid even if I email or IM the client > at > that time. I have worked in the Contracts Department of companies like > Sprint and Cingular and I have seen them get burned and have to resort to > Suing to get their money back so again I have to disagree with you about > negotiations. A Contract is a contract; here are the three ways you can > break a contract per the UCC -Uniform Code of Commerce > > #1 Incapacity- Mentally Unfit to make a contract > #2 Age - To young to be making a contract > #3 Breach of contract - One party or another did not complete part of > contract > > So in our case it is almost always number three either the developer did > not > do ANYWORK (or they signed a completed project contract) > or the Client Breached the Contract by not paying > > Here is the one I find funny- A Client that breeches the contract usually > wants to hold you (the Consultant) to a NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement) > meaning no contact with his or her end client after they terminated your > services even though they have not paid you. > > Ok. So Jeff has some experience with this so have I, I have worked for two > different Law Enforcement Agencies, Two Different Court Houses in two > different States, I have friends who are lawyers. I am an expert in > Contract > Law. And I always look up clients on WWW.PACER.GOV (Federal DISTRICT > Court > Houses Case Party Index) yet I too get burned so UNLIKE you I do not > consider getting burned me not KNOWING how to negotiate. I was my School > Debate Champion and have won lawsuits again Fortune 500 Companies > representing myself (pro se). > > The list she talks about is needed. She also has another point no one has > picked up on, What about us HAVING A UNION. The all contracts would go > thru > the Union anynone not paying would be sued by the Union. Programmer would > not need to come up with $2000 just to get back $2500. Instead they could > pay 120 a year or $10 a Month to belong to a "National Technology Workers > Union" that would have attorneys on staff would could deal with this mess, > > I think that until that day comes along we should have this list and if > the > Clients want a list of Bad Programmers they had better pay one of US to > create IT! > > > Just my $10,000! > > > On Feb 2, 2008 6:55 PM, angry housewife <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I have watched my husband work very hard for three or four contracts > > in the last six months where he has only been paid ten percent of his > > total invoiced hours. My husband never signs a contract where the work > > has to be completed before he is paid, yet every client of his who has > > not paid uses this as an excuse not to pay because the work or project > > is not completed. > > > > > > The only work my husband ever seems to get paid in full for is for > > work done on-site. > > > > I'm sorry, but this really sounds like bad business not on the part > > of > > the client, but on your husband's part. If the same client did not > > pay > > several different contractors, they are probably at fault. If the > > same > > contractor doesn't get paid by several different clients, he is > > probably at fault. > > > > Yes there are deadbeat clients out there. Perhaps a list would be > > helpful. But maybe your husband doesn't need instead of a list of > > clients to avoid. Maybe he needs some training / help in drafting > > contracts and dealing with said dead-beat clients. > > > > I've done very little on contract myself, but if I ever started, I > > would seek some help from someone more experienced first. Someone > > like > > Jeff Houser on this list generally has the best advice and has > > experience with clients of all types. He has been burned, but has not > > come here bitching and moaning and wanting to name names. He figures > > out what went wrong and tries to fix it for future clients. Your > > husband (and yourself) would do well to do the same. And / Or hire > > someone to train / help you learn how to deal with the past problems. > > > > If such a deadbeat list were to exist, I may look at it as a > > reference > > to "beware" of. But I'm not likely to accept it as gospel that the > > client will not pay. I would have to question the contractor who put > > the name there in the first place. Did they really deliver what the > > client asked for? What kind of communication did he have with the > > client? Etcetera, etcetera. I know that there are 2 sides to every > > story. Simply putting a client name on a list is very one-sided. > > > > Just my 2 cents. > > > > -- > > Matt Williams > > "It's the question that drives us. > " > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3628 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
