Is the plan also to demote the "silicate" and "phosphate" names? That would seem to make sense to me, consistent with Jim's points.
On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 12:13 PM, <martin.juc...@stfc.ac.uk> wrote: > Dear Jim, > > thanks. I think that means that we need a corrections to the statements, > from the CF Standard Name list, that: > > (1) '"Dissolved inorganic phosphorus" means phosphate ions in solution' in > the CF Standard Name definition for mole_concentration_of_ > dissolved_inorganic_phosphorus_in_sea_water, and > (2) '"Dissolved inorganic silicon" means silicate ions in solution' in the > definition of mole_concentration_of_dissolved_inorganic_silicon_ > in_sea_water > > regards, > Martin > ________________________________________ > From: James Orr [james....@lsce.ipsl.fr] > Sent: 24 March 2017 15:46 > To: Lowry, Roy K. > Cc: Juckes, Martin (STFC,RAL,RALSP); cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu > Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] Silicate vs. dissolved inorganic silicon > > Dissolved inorganic phosphorus in seawater takes several forms, with > phosphate (P043-) being only one of them. Furthermore, PO43- is not > even the most abundant form at normal seawater pH. Rather it is HPO42- > (hydrogen phosphate). Oceanographers do often refer to phosphate but > what they really taking about is total dissolved inorganic phosphorus > (the sum of all inorganic forms). > > The seawater system for dissolved inorganic silicon is simpler because > we only need to consider two forms: silicic acid (Si(OH)4) and silicate > (SiO(OH)3-). The former is more abundant than the latter in seawater. > > It is best then to refer to > - total dissolved inorganic phosphorus rather than phosphate and > - total dissolved inorganic silicon rather than silicate. > > For more insight see the last figure in the OMIP-BGC protocols paper > in the CMIP6 special issue at > > http://www.geosci-model-dev-discuss.net/gmd-2016-155/ > > Cheers, > > Jim > > On Fri, 24 Mar 2017, Lowry, Roy K. wrote: > > > Dear All, > > > > > > If one makes the assumption that all the silicon and phosphorus atoms > not associated with organic ligands are > > in a single chemical form associated with oxygen in solution then what > Martin says is correct. In my > > experience I have never known anybody challenge this assumption and I > cannot think of any other anions > > incorporating P and Si. Consequently, I would agree that whilst there is > a theoretical semantic difference > > between the members of each Standard Name pair I would agree that this > could be ignored and they could be > > considered synonyms. > > > > > > Note, this only holds true as these are MOLE concentrations. The MASS > concentration of inorganic phosphorus > > is very different from the MASS concentration of phosphate as the oxygen > atoms have mass. > > > > > > If the decision is taken to take action on this then I would recommend > that the 'inorganic_silicon' and > > 'inorganic_phosphorus' names be than ones to be converted to aliases. > This is based on common terminology > > usage in the oceanographic community. > > > > > > Cheers, Roy. > > > > > > Please note that I partially retired on 01/11/2015. I am now only > working 7.5 hours a week and can only > > guarantee e-mail response on Wednesdays, my day in the office. All > vocabulary queries should be sent to > > enquir...@bodc.ac.uk. Please also use this e-mail if your requirement > is urgent. > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > _________________________________________________ > > From: CF-metadata <cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu> on behalf of > martin.juc...@stfc.ac.uk > > <martin.juc...@stfc.ac.uk> > > Sent: 24 March 2017 08:48 > > To: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu > > Subject: [CF-metadata] Silicate vs. dissolved inorganic silicon > > Hello Alison, others, > > > > the standard name list includes both > > (1) mole_concentration_of_dissolved_inorganic_silicon_in_sea_water and > (2) > > mole_concentration_of_silicate_in_sea_water > > > > The definition of the first says that "dissolved inorganic silicon" > means silicate ions in solution. Both > > have units of "mol m-3". It looks to me as though they are describing > the same thing. If this is true, should > > one be demoted to the alias of the other? If they are different, what is > the difference? > > > > The same question applies to > > mole_concentration_of_dissolved_inorganic_phosphorus_in_sea_water > and > > mole_concentration_of_phosphate_in_sea_water. > > > > regards, > > Martin > > > > _______________________________________________ > > CF-metadata mailing list > > CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu > > http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata > > CF-metadata Info Page - mailman.cgd.ucar.edu Mailing Lists > > mailman.cgd.ucar.edu > > This is an unmoderated list for discussions about interpretation, > clarification, and proposals for extensions > > or change to the CF conventions. > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > _________________________________________________ > > This message (and any attachments) is for the recipient only. NERC is > subject to the Freedom of Information > > Act 2000 and the contents of this email and any reply you make may be > disclosed by NERC unless it is exempt > > from release under the Act. Any material supplied to NERC may be stored > in an electronic records management > > system. > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > _________________________________________________ > > > > > > -- > LSCE/IPSL, Laboratoire des Sciences du Climat et de l'Environnement > CEA-CNRS-UVSQ > > LSCE/IPSL, CEA Saclay http://www.ipsl.jussieu.fr/~jomce > Bat. 712 - Orme mailto: james....@lsce.ipsl.fr > Point courrier 132 > F-91191 Gif-sur-Yvette Cedex Phone: (33) (0)1 69 08 39 73 > FRANCE Fax: (33) (0)1 69 08 30 73 > _______________________________________________ > CF-metadata mailing list > CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu > http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata >
_______________________________________________ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
