John,

There are a variety of conventions for defining roll, pitch, and yaw out there. This is why we are avoiding a specific one. Others have searched existing datasets that are using earlier versions of these standard names (or not using standard names) and found that they don't all follow the same convention.

Ethan,

We purposely aren't answering that question directly because of the issue above. I believe that I have consistently followed the convention in which clockwise and anticlockwise are rotational directions around a unit vector facing the observer, where the X unit vector is in the nominally forward direction, the Z axis is in the local up direction, and the Y axis unit vector is "Z cross X", which forms a right-handed coordinate system. The terms are meaningful and accurate using that convention, but the names could be "alpha" and "beta" or "dog" and "cat" as long as they are used correctly.

This whole topic is fraught with competing conventions, so we are attempting to avoid declaring that only one of them is valid, with it's corresponding requirement that everyone follow that one sign convention.

In fact, we could reword things to remove naming the axes X, Y, and Z, and perhaps we should. I know of satellite platforms that define their Y axis unit vector as pointing forward and the Z axis unit vector as pointing down.

Thoughts?

Grace and peace,

Jim


On 8/29/18 1:32 PM, John Helly wrote:
Perhaps one should refer to the discipline of hydrostatics for help with this?  This paper, pulled from a quick search, has a diagram referencing the platforms' frame of reference with respect to its center of gravity.  Sorry if this comment is retrograde.

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/mpe/2010/934714/

J.

On 8/29/18 10:09, Ethan Davis wrote:
Hi Jim, all,

I'm a bit confused by the "clockwise" and "anticlockwise". You mention the orientation of the observer but not the location/orientation of the clock. My assumptions (not sure why) for the clock: for roll, the observer (who is facing forward) would be facing the clock; for pitch, the observer would look right to see the clock; and for yaw, the observer would look down to see the clock. That works for your definitions of pitch and yaw, but is backwards for roll.

Does "clockwise" add, in some way, another degree of freedom to the definition? Does that degree of freedom need to be nailed down in the definitions? Or other terms used instead? I don't have any good suggestions other than "positive" and "negative".

Cheers,

Ethan

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 9:03 AM Jim Biard <jbi...@cicsnc.org <mailto:jbi...@cicsnc.org>> wrote:

    Hi.


    I've finally gotten back to this topic! The definitions below
    call out an attribute named "direction" that is used to specify
    the direction for positive values of the different quantities. We
    may need to add a definition for the attribute to the
    Conventions. The values and meanings for the direction attribute are:

    roll: "clockwise" for positive right side up and "anticlockwise"
    for positive right side down.
    pitch: "clockwise" for positive nose up and "anticlockwise" for
    positive nose down.
    yaw: "clockwise" for positive nose right and "anticlockwise" for
    positive nose left.
    surge: "positive" for positive forward and "negative" for
    positive backward.
    sway: "positive" for positive left and "negative" for positive right.
    heave: "positive" for positive up and "negative" for positive down.

    And here are the standard name definitions:

    platform_roll: Platform is a structure or vehicle that serves as
    a base for mounting sensors. Platforms include, but are not
    limited to, satellites, aeroplanes, ships, buoys, ground
    stations, and masts. Roll is a rotation about an axis (the X
    axis) that is perpendicular to the local vertical axis (the Z
    axis) and is coplanar with the nominal forward motion direction
    of the platform. Roll is relative to the “at rest” rotation of
    the platform with respect to the X axis. The “at rest” rotation
    of the platform may change over time. The direction for positive
    values of roll is specified by an attribute named direction. The
    value of the direction attribute is "clockwise" if positive
    values of roll represent the right side of the platform rising as
    viewed by an observer on top of the platform facing forward. The
    value of the direction attribute is "anticlockwise" if positive
    values of roll represent the right side of the platform falling.
    The directionality of roll values is unspecified if no direction
    attribute is present.

    platform_pitch: Platform is a structure or vehicle that serves as
    a base for mounting sensors. Platforms include, but are not
    limited to, satellites, aeroplanes, ships, buoys, ground
    stations, and masts. Pitch is a rotation about an axis (the Y
    axis) that is perpendicular to both the local vertical axis (the
    Z axis) and the nominal forward motion direction of the platform.
    Pitch is relative to the “at rest” rotation of the platform with
    respect to the Y axis. The “at rest” rotation of the platform may
    change over time. The direction for positive values of pitch is
    specified by an attribute named direction. The value of the
    direction attribute is "clockwise" if positive values of pitch
    represent the front of the platform rising as viewed by an
    observer on top of the platform facing forward. The value of the
    direction attribute is "anticlockwise" if positive values of
    pitch represent the front of the platform falling. The
    directionality of pitch values is unspecified if no direction
    attribute is present.

    platform_yaw: Platform is a structure or vehicle that serves as a
    base for mounting sensors. Platforms include, but are not limited
    to, satellites, aeroplanes, ships, buoys, ground stations, and
    masts. Yaw is a rotation about the local vertical axis (the Z
    axis). Yaw is relative to the “at rest” rotation of the platform
    with respect to the Z axis. The “at rest” rotation of the
    platform may change over time. The direction for positive values
    of yaw is specified by an attribute named direction. The value of
    the direction attribute is "clockwise" if positive values of yaw
    represent the front of the platform moving to the right as viewed
    by an observer on top of the platform facing forward. The value
    of the direction attribute is "anticlockwise" if positive values
    of yaw represent the front of the platform moving to the left.
    The directionality of yaw values is unspecified if no direction
    attribute is present.

    platform_surge: Platform is a structure or vehicle that serves as
    a base for mounting sensors. Platforms include, but are not
    limited to, satellites, aeroplanes, ships, buoys, ground
    stations, and masts. Surge is a displacement along an axis (the X
    axis) that is perpendicular to the local vertical axis (the Z
    axis) and is coplanar with the nominal forward motion direction
    of the platform. Surge is relative to the “at rest” position of
    the platform with respect to the X axis. The “at rest” position
    of the platform may change over time. The direction for positive
    values of surge is specified by an attribute named direction. The
    value of the direction attribute is "positive" if positive values
    of surge represent the platform moving forward as viewed by an
    observer on top of the platform facing forward. The value of the
    direction attribute is "negative" if positive values of surge
    represent the platform moving backward. The directionality of
    surge values is unspecified if no direction attribute is present.

    platform_sway: Platform is a structure or vehicle that serves as
    a base for mounting sensors. Platforms include, but are not
    limited to, satellites, aeroplanes, ships, buoys, ground
    stations, and masts. Sway is a displacement along an axis (the Y
    axis) that is perpendicular to both the local vertical axis (the
    Z axis) and the nominal forward motion direction of the platform.
    Sway is relative to the “at rest” position of the platform with
    respect to the Y axis. The “at rest” position of the platform may
    change over time.  The direction for positive values of sway is
    specified by an attribute named direction. The value of the
    direction attribute is "positive" if positive values of sway
    represent the platform moving left as viewed by an observer on
    top of the platform facing forward. The value of the direction
    attribute is "negative" if positive values of sway represent the
    platform moving right. The directionality of sway values is
    unspecified if no direction attribute is present.

    platform_heave: Platform is a structure or vehicle that serves as
    a base for mounting sensors. Platforms include, but are not
    limited to, satellites, aeroplanes, ships, buoys, ground
    stations, and masts. Heave is a displacement along the local
    vertical axis (the Z axis). Heave is relative to the “at rest”
    position of the platform with respect to the Z axis. The “at
    rest” position of the platform may change over time.  The
    direction for positive values of heave is specified by an
    attribute named direction. The value of the direction attribute
    is "positive" if positive values of heave represent the platform
    moving up as viewed by an observer on top of the platform facing
    forward. The value of the direction attribute is "negative" if
    positive values of heave represent the platform moving down. The
    directionality of heave values is unspecified if no direction
    attribute is present.

    platform_course: Platform is a structure or vehicle that serves
    as a base for mounting sensors. Platforms include, but are not
    limited to, satellites, aeroplanes, ships, buoys, ground
    stations, and masts. Course is the clockwise angle with respect
    to North of the nominal forward motion direction of the platform.

    platform_orientation: Platform is a structure or vehicle that
    serves as a base for mounting sensors. Platforms include, but are
    not limited to, satellites, aeroplanes, ships, buoys, ground
    stations, and masts. Orientation is the clockwise angle with
    respect to North of the longitudinal (front-to-back) axis of the
    platform, which may be different than the platform course (see
    platform_course).

    platform_roll_rate: Platform is a structure or vehicle that
    serves as a base for mounting sensors. Platforms include, but are
    not limited to, satellites, aeroplanes, ships, buoys, ground
    stations, and masts. Roll rate is the rate of rotation about an
    axis (the X axis) that is perpendicular to the local vertical
    axis (the Z axis) and is coplanar with the nominal forward motion
    direction of the platform. Roll rate might not include changes in
    the “at rest” rotation of the platform, which may change over
    time. The direction for positive values of roll rate is specified
    by an attribute named direction. The value of the direction
    attribute is "clockwise" if positive values of roll rate
    represent the right side of the platform rising as viewed by an
    observer on top of the platform facing forward. The value of the
    direction attribute is "anticlockwise" if positive values of roll
    rate represent the right side of the platform falling. The
    directionality of roll rate values is unspecified if no direction
    attribute is present.

    platform_pitch_rate: Platform is a structure or vehicle that
    serves as a base for mounting sensors. Platforms include, but are
    not limited to, satellites, aeroplanes, ships, buoys, ground
    stations, and masts. Pitch rate is the rate of rotation about an
    axis (the Y axis) that is perpendicular to both the local
    vertical axis (the Z axis) and the nominal forward motion
    direction of the platform. Pitch rate might not include changes
    in the “at rest” rotation of the platform, which may change over
    time. The direction for positive values of pitch rate is
    specified by an attribute named direction. The value of the
    direction attribute is "clockwise" if positive values of pitch
    rate represent the front of the platform rising as viewed by an
    observer on top of the platform facing forward. The value of the
    direction attribute is "anticlockwise" if positive values of
    pitch rate represent the front of the platform falling. The
    directionality of pitch rate values is unspecified if no
    direction attribute is present.

    platform_yaw_rate: Platform is a structure or vehicle that serves
    as a base for mounting sensors. Platforms include, but are not
    limited to, satellites, aeroplanes, ships, buoys, ground
    stations, and masts. Yaw rate is the rate of rotation about the
    local vertical axis (the Z axis). Yaw rate might not include
    changes in the “at rest” rotation of the platform, which may
    change over time. The direction for positive values of yaw rate
    is specified by an attribute named direction. The value of the
    direction attribute is "clockwise" if positive values of yaw rate
    represent the front of the platform moving to the right as viewed
    by an observer on top of the platform facing forward. The value
    of the direction attribute is "anticlockwise" if positive values
    of yaw rate represent the front of the platform moving to the
    left. The directionality of yaw rate values is unspecified if no
    direction attribute is present.

    platform_surge_rate: Platform is a structure or vehicle that
    serves as a base for mounting sensors. Platforms include, but are
    not limited to, satellites, aeroplanes, ships, buoys, ground
    stations, and masts. Surge rate is the rate of displacement along
    an axis (the X axis) that is perpendicular to the local vertical
    axis (the Z axis) and is coplanar with the nominal forward motion
    direction of the platform. Surge rate might not include changes
    in the “at rest” position of the platform, which may change over
    time. The direction for positive values of surge rate is
    specified by an attribute named direction. The value of the
    direction attribute is "positive" if positive values of surge
    rate represent the platform moving forward as viewed by an
    observer on top of the platform facing forward. The value of the
    direction attribute is "negative" if positive values of surge
    rate represent the platform moving backward. The directionality
    of surge rate values is unspecified if no direction attribute is
    present.

    platform_sway_rate: Platform is a structure or vehicle that
    serves as a base for mounting sensors. Platforms include, but are
    not limited to, satellites, aeroplanes, ships, buoys, ground
    stations, and masts. Sway rate is the rate of displacement along
    an axis (the Y axis) that is perpendicular to both the local
    vertical axis (the Z axis) and the nominal forward motion
    direction of the platform. Sway rate might not include changes in
    the “at rest” position of the platform, which may change over
    time. The direction for positive values of sway rate is specified
    by an attribute named direction. The value of the direction
    attribute is "positive" if positive values of sway rate represent
    the platform moving left as viewed by an observer on top of the
    platform facing forward. The value of the direction attribute is
    "negative" if positive values of sway rate represent the platform
    moving right. The directionality of sway rate values is
    unspecified if no direction attribute is present.

    platform_heave_rate: Platform is a structure or vehicle that
    serves as a base for mounting sensors. Platforms include, but are
    not limited to, satellites, aeroplanes, ships, buoys, ground
    stations, and masts. Heave rate is the rate of displacement along
    the local vertical axis (the Z axis). Heave rate might not
    include changes in the “at rest” position of the platform, which
    may change over time. The direction for positive values of heave
    rate is specified by an attribute named direction. The value of
    the direction attribute is "positive" if positive values of heave
    rate represent the platform moving up as viewed by an observer on
    top of the platform facing forward. The value of the direction
    attribute is "negative" if positive values of heave rate
    represent the platform moving down. The directionality of heave
    rate values is unspecified if no direction attribute is present.


    Grace and peace,


    Jim




_______________________________________________
CF-metadata mailing list
CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu
http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata

--
John Helly, University of California, San Diego / San Diego Supercomputer 
Center / Scripps Institution of Oceanography / 760 840 8660 mobile 
/http://www.sdsc.edu/~hellyj
ORCID ID: orcid.org/0000-0002-3779-0603

--
CICS-NC <http://www.cicsnc.org/> Visit us on
Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/cicsnc>         *Jim Biard*
*Research Scholar*
Cooperative Institute for Climate and Satellites NC <http://cicsnc.org/>
North Carolina State University <http://ncsu.edu/>
NOAA National Centers for Environmental Information <http://ncdc.noaa.gov/>
/formerly NOAA’s National Climatic Data Center/
151 Patton Ave, Asheville, NC 28801
e: jbi...@cicsnc.org <mailto:jbi...@cicsnc.org>
o: +1 828 271 4900

/Connect with us on Facebook for climate <https://www.facebook.com/NOAANCEIclimate> and ocean and geophysics <https://www.facebook.com/NOAANCEIoceangeo> information, and follow us on Twitter at @NOAANCEIclimate <https://twitter.com/NOAANCEIclimate> and @NOAANCEIocngeo <https://twitter.com/NOAANCEIocngeo>. /


_______________________________________________
CF-metadata mailing list
CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu
http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata

Reply via email to