Wow -- this has been a great thread -- thanks for all the comments. I have to agree I'm pretty cynical about the certs -- I had written two books and been doing ColdFusion for 4 years before I took the time to certify (and I remember sending the partners@mm folks a nasty letter when they told me I had to certify to stay in the program once MM bought Allaire -- we all don't have cert centers in our immediate vicinity nor the inclination to pay $$ and time to pass a pretty basic exam).
But I have found with several government-related jobs, both US and German, that there's two boxes to check: CS degree or MCSE. (In one situation, the project was CF/Oracle and the requirement was CS or MCSE... go figure). No matter how much the tech folks push, the bureaucrat requires the box be checked. (Now one may wonder if the job is worthwhile if a bureaucrat makes the decision but that's another thread altogether :) The other thing I've found is that it's much harder to compete against CS grads if you're not one. I've been doing programming for 20 years, starting in high school, getting two degrees and spending significant doctoral program time doing all sorts of programming. Written books, taught courses/seminars, the whole nine yards. But the HR folks get 100s of resumes for some of the positions and it's hard to make a case for yourself if they sieve you out based on the search criteria (of course if they're that superficial, it might not be the best job...) So certfication (particularly for the development world) comes down to two major goals: 1) Prove you "understand" the technology from a specific vendor (MCSE, etc) 2) Prove you are a capable CS person (traditional degree) Certainly the 2nd would tend to be the preferred person for all but very narrow, compartmentalized jobs. So the questions then becomes "What alternatives to 4 years back in school are there?" Executive MIS/MBA/MSCS degrees, particularly fit the bill. High cost, large commitment of time and effort. Clearly better longterm solution than certs. Is this the preferred way to round out your professional credentials? Time for some more discussion :) Regards, John Paul Ashenfelter CTO/Transitionpoint [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cathy Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 10:29 AM Subject: certification experiences/plans? > Crud, my email server is down, so hopefully this will post through the website! Anyway, here's what I tried sending this morning. > > Ok, in my experience (cynical as well)... > > I've never been turned down due to a lack of degree or lack or certifications - I've always been hired/promoted based on my skills and experience. I did, however, get a CF 5 cert because when I raised my rates this fiscal year (I'm an independent contractor), I was told I didn't qualify for the rate unless I was certified in something (anything) or had a degree. So I ran out and got certified in the one thing I thought I could pass pretty easily (and I did). > > I think there is a small percentage of the population that technical stuff comes easily to - you know, people with that certain "knack" who just get it when stuff comes their way and can chunk through anything whether they've seen it before or not (much of this list probably falls into that category). There is no way to screen that when hiring based on a resume, degree, or list of certifications someone has. I know, I've hired several complete duds who looked great on paper. If you've got that knack, employers will recognize that (after you're hired, of course) and keep/promote you. > > (That said, I am working on my MIS degree right now mostly for fun rather than any career goals - I'm perfectly happy with my career.) > > My husband also does not have a degree and was one test shy of a CNE years ago - he has no other certifications. He has never lacked for good contracts either, owns our consulting firm, and is highly respected in the technical field. > > A newbie - no weight - they can be groomed, particularly if they have aforesaid knack (I once had a great 21 year old tech under me - only downside was he was a bit flaky due to age and partying) > > The other two I would hire based on experience and references. > > JMHO! > > Cathy > > Subject: certification experiences/plans? > From: "Rob Rohan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 17:17:04 -0800 > Thread: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=messages&threadid=202 55&forumid=4#102369 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
