WOW! What a thread, I am all FIRED UP now. I am happy to hear this being discussed so openly, I think that CF has quite a diverse customer base (as opposed to java, php, etc) and it causes some confusion, misunderstanding etc when discussing things like this
Small co. vs. large co. Small apps vs. enterprise level apps. Contractors vs. CIO Little programmer employed by company vs. Evangelist Etc. etc. But I would like to say that if anyone is not going to MAX and has anything specific that they would like to see in the Conference coverage of the CFDJ, please email me offline. I want to be sure to focus on the topics that people actually want to hear about. Thanks. April -----Original Message----- From: Simon Horwith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 4:08 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: CF developer numbers one thing I'd like to just mention is that if you're at MAX, there will be a lot of Macromedia folks there to talk to about these issues/concerns. Grab Ben if you can. Go over to the Community Pit - the MMUG and Team Macromedia folks will be there. Also, talk with Myself about it - not only for my thoughts and suggestions but because this is the kind of thing that CFDJ should be helping to combat. April Fleming is also going to be covering MAX for CFDJ - talk with her. Either way, you should definitely let people at Macromedia know about what's going on near you and your thoughts on the matter. ~Simon Simon Horwith Member of Team Macromedia Macromedia Certified Master Instructor Editor-in-Chief, ColdFusion Developers Journal Blog - http://www.horwith.com Andy Jarrett wrote: >Or maybe even consider not going down the Blue Alanta pricing, but >their own Flex pricing? Surely this would open up the gates a little? > >As long as you can gaurantee (somehow) that the site is going to be >used for personal use (or charity etc) by giving the server away free >in these cases means that ISP can offer CF at a rate thats in >competition with ASP and PHP hosting. > >I know that CF costs more to host, and i've seen the threads that >outway costs against development time. We all have. But i still know >smaller developers who would rather pay £29 a year >(http://www.web-hosting.uk.com/packages/) for hosting ASP or PHP than >£119 (http://cfmxhosting.co.uk/index.cfm?action=services.hosting) and >get half the features. I know that development time levy's of the cost >etc, but to the small developer he see's his hosting cost in this >example as 400% bigger than if he was hosting with another language. > >Andy >www.andyjarrett.co.uk > >On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 20:51:19 -0700, Barney Boisvert ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>>What do you think would make a difference? Or put even more bluntly, >>>if you were my boss and could dictate how I spent my time, what would >>>you want me doing to spread the gospel according to Saint CF? >>> >>> >>What ever's going to keep MM going strong and CF becoming a better >>product is what you ought to be doing. I'm convinced that's the large >>company market based on events of the past year or so, and your >>comments back that up 100%. However, there's still a lot of little >>guys around in the world, most of which aren't going to be affecting >>CF's overall revenue in any significant way (what's $1300 every few >>years next to $50,000 for 10 clustered CF enterprises), but it still >>represents a significant portion of the developer base. >> >>That developer base is a very valuable asset to MM's overall marketing >>of CF, more voices translates to more converts translates to more >>sales. If the little guys start petering out for PHP, ASP, or >>whatever, suddenly there's a lot less noise being made about CF, >>except withing the tight circles of corporate IT departments. >> >>This hasn't hurt Java or .NET in any way, of course, but it's going to >>piss off a LOT of CF developers who've invested heavily but have been >>swept by the wayside by MM, because they don't contribute to the >>bottom line enough to matter. Java and .NET have a certain barrier to >>entry. You just can't go that route without some real resources. PHP >>takes nothing but hardware. CF floats somewhere in the middle. >> >>So along with provding for the future development of CF and MM as a >>whole, a nod to the existing user base would be nice. How much do CF >>Standard sales account for? Would dropping that price down by 50% >>have a huge effect on the overall bottom line? I bet you'd get more >>sales if you did. (Chalk me up for at least one, but for now, it's >>JSPs for me). Hell, maybe even consider New Atlanta's route. Take CF >>Standard, trim it down some more (no CFX, only Access and MySQL, maybe >>even single-threaded) and give it away. With the unified codebase, >>you just change a serial to upgrade, and that's it. >> >>I have no idea if any of that is feasible, or even reasonable, you'll >>have to tell us that. But it some thoughts from a "little guy" that's >>seen MM ignore us more and more in favor of the "big guy". >> >>cheers, >>barneyb >> >>On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:51:30 -0400, Ben Forta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >>>Interesting thread, on a whole bunch of levels. >>> >>>A few comments, and then an open question ... >>> >>>1) Lots of messages imply that MM is not working on getting the word >>>out there. And I know for a fact that that is not true, it is what I >>>do almost full-time, and others work at it too. Maybe many are not >>>seeing it, I'll get back to that in a moment. >>> >>>2) We are selling lots of CF. I can't disclose numbers and financials >>>and stuff without getting into all sorts of trouble, but I don't >>>think I'll get fired for saying that CF is indeed selling, and >>>selling well. >>> >>>3) What I have noticed is a dramatic change in who I am speaking to, >>>and the types of conversations. A few years ago I was talking to lots >>>of .com start-ups and developments shops and consultants and >>>departmental decision makers. I honestly don't bump into many of >>>these anymore. But I do spend lots of time talking to corporate >>>decision makers, in the past few weeks I have met with no less than a >>>dozen well known very high profile corporations, all using CF and >>>lots of it. And this is reflected in the types of sales we are >>>making, and who we are selling to. With the changes in CFMX, the >>>maturation of the market in general, the tightening of the purse >>>strings and the subsequent trend towards consolidation and bringing >>>projects back in house, we are finding ourselves selling CF >>>differently. Even pricing, which some of you pointed out as an >>>obstacle to CF growth, is in reality not much of an obstacle. We >>>rarely finds ourselves talking to those for whom the cost of CF >>>Standard is a deal-breaker, those who want to only look at the >>>initial cost. I can state quite emphatically that I have not heard >>>price as an objection in a long time now, not where we are finding >>>ourselves playing. The market has changed and space has changed. >>> >>>4) Which brings me back to point #1. We are blowing the CF horn loud >>>and clear, but ads in trade rags and banners on coding sites and >>>blurbs in tech journals don't cut it anymore. We've ran ad campaigns, >>>we know what they cost and know how effective they are (or are not), >>>and this has necessitated a change in how we blow that horn (and >>>where we blow it). >>> >>>And so my question to you is this ... >>> >>>What do you think would make a difference? Or put even more bluntly, >>>if you were my boss and could dictate how I spent my time, what would >>>you want me doing to spread the gospel according to Saint CF? >>> >>>--- Ben >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>Barney Boisvert >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>360.319.6145 >>http://www.barneyb.com/blog/ >> >>I currently have 2 GMail invites for the taking >> >> >> >> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Purchase from House of Fusion, a Macromedia Authorized Affiliate and support the CF community. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=37 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:182225 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
