A couple of comments on this:
I used to work for one of the first ISP on Europe, we used mostly Linux +
Gnu etc.
We supplied Mosaic and then Netscape 1.2 , Netscape 3 etc . Then of course
Microsoft looked at the WEB. They gave us IDC (awful) and huge amounts of
money / support etc... They gave us IE, to distribute for free. (Netscape
wanted a license fee). As time went on we used ASP, Commerce Server,
etc...mostly for costly , Microsoft supported projects. etc .etc ....One
problem their products were for the most part crap, even for free. We mapped
..asp files to Perl on Linux and reported our servers as NT. Generally we
used Perl, C Scripting Linux & Sendmail etc to our work. CF made appearance
internally around CFv1.5 (It's come a long way :-) and we used from then on
for various stuff ) Having said all that ASP is pretty good now, ASP+ even
better. Win2000 is starting to mature and in general MS Web products are
getting better. As for ASP being difficult, well it's all relative. There
are some things that are "easier" to do in ASP, the same way the things
that are easier in Java or C or assembly etc... For a non-programmer the
tagged syntax of CF might be easier , more natural; but for a programmer
well why can't I do <cfset x++> for example ??? Is it easier to do <cfset x
= x + 1>????
As for maintainable code well you can write crap code in any language.
It all comes down to the problem and the resources you have.
I think in Europe there is a tradition of using open source products , maybe
because European Companies don't demand that there is "a company" to support
languages they use. They trust the community more than one company (i.e.
Microsoft). Also the Cost of the product used to be an issue on Europe (not
really any more). This is different in the states.
As for the impact of CF Allaire in Europe, well it's exploding from I've
seen since v1.5 . The JRun purchase will definitely add to those interested
in Allaire.
Maybe you are using Linux yourself bflynn??? :-) "Flames>>/dev/null"?
A lot of people call that arcane. (and for the end user (my dad) they might
still be right but I love it as a programmer )
Anyway just my thoughts....
Justin
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 1:14 PM
>To: CF-Talk
>Subject: RE: Slightly OT
>
>
>Sorry, but I have to comment -
>
>(engage soapbox mode)
>
>Managers that choose ASP over CF are showing that they have no business
>being a manager. I've done both. My first reaction to ASP was
>"Why is this
>so difficult?" My first reaction to CF was "Wow, someone finally made it
>simple." Anyone that chooses the cheap implementation over something that
>is maintainable is not someone that I want to work with/for. Software
>development is hard enough already...we don't need to make it harder by
>choosing arcane scripting languages.
>
>(ok, I'm done)
>
>Thanks - I feel better now. Flames>>/dev/null.
>
>Brian
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Martin Sutton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 5:28 AM
>To: CF-Talk
>Subject: RE: Slightly OT
>
>
>The problem with this is that often, the people controlling the purse
>strings are not developers, they are BIS managers brought in to control
>budgets and strategy. I am pretty sure that this is why. They don't see a
>difference as long as the functionality is the same. Try asking a senior
>manager what RAD is.....
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Allan Pichler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>But ... in my humble opinion you can easily justify the purchase of a CF
>server license when your development time is reduced .... AND THAT IS A
>FACT!
>My 5 cents!
>
>Allan Pichler
>Machine Dreams Inc.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Martin Sutton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 2:18 AM
>To: CF-Talk
>Subject: RE: Slightly OT
>
>
>I think that possibly Microsoft (therefore ASP) has a stronger marketing
>machine here because our technology centres are not as guided.
>
>European countries are behind the US in software development and also in
>pricing.
>
>As an indication, CF Server Pro costs £1300 ish over here. It is $1200(?)
>in the US, so yes, thats a big difference, even for a one time purchase.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Allan Pichler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: 05 January 2001 10:16
>To: CF-Talk
>Subject: RE: Slightly OT
>
>
>That's actually a very interesting point to bring up ....
>
>It seems that almost all european countries uses php/asp whereas over here
>the market has room for all of the scripting languages .... is it the price
>for a license that scares companies in europe ??
>
>Allan Pichler
>Machine Dreams Inc.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Martin Sutton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 2:07 AM
>To: CF-Talk
>Subject: RE: Slightly OT
>
>
>Do UUnet have a CF hosting service?
>
>Jason, any ISP that allows dedicated servers (if thats what you require)
>will host CF.
>
>The only problem you may come across is in the use of RDS which some ISP's
>do not allow. Another problem is trying to find a shared server with CF
>support in the UK because I can't help thinking that CF just hasn't had the
>same impact this side of the atlantic.
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