Sadly, expecting people to understand a language without actually using it leads to all sorts of failure modes - where people claim to understand the language but have no actual experience with it.
Thanks, -- Raul On Sat, Dec 16, 2017 at 6:54 AM, Erling Hellenäs <[email protected]> wrote: > I think you normally expect text, including manuals, to be readable. If it > is you don't have to do experiments at the terminal to understand the text. > /Erling > > > On 2017-12-15 04:37, Don Guinn wrote: >> >> How many hours did I spend reading the Dictionary while sitting on the >> toilet? >> >> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Jose Mario Quintana < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> :D >>> >>> I probably understood half of the entry descriptions I read originally >>> because I have a very short attention span, I moved on and jumped >>> frequently to the examples which helped me a lot in conjunction with some >>> experimentation with the interpreter, which is ultimately the one that >>> matters (to me) because is the one that produces results. >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 3:35 AM, Erling Hellenäs >>> <[email protected] >>> wrote: >>> >>>> For me manuals have always been the first resort. When you read it you >>>> know more than anyone else about the language, because noone else read >>>> it >>>> :) The only exception is the J manual, which I find totally unreadable. >>>> /Erling >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Den 2017-12-13 kl. 23:46, skrev Jose Mario Quintana: >>>> >>>>> I am surprised how many people have not read the reference manual - >>>>>> >>>>>> not just in the J community but among technical people in general. >>>>>> >>>>>> I really don't know what to make of this. >>>>>> >>>>> This, to me, is akin to wondering why many people, particularly young >>>>> children, can communicate orally fairly well in a language even when >>> >>> they >>>>> >>>>> have not studied its grammar. >>>>> >>>>> On the one hand, I write J tacitly the same way I speak, almost always >>>>> without consciously thinking about grammar rules. On the other hand, I >>>>> learned J, a long time ago, by reading the Dictionary (which is not a >>>>> recommended way to learn it) and simultaneously experimenting with the >>>>> interpreter (which is definitely recommended). >>>>> >>>>> I wish I had the time to read the Dictionary again in its entirety. >>> >>> Yet, >>>>> >>>>> I >>>>> still remember fondly the answer of a brilliant boss of mine when I >>>>> suggested we should look at one particular reference manual: "Are you >>>>> kidding? Manuals are the last resort!" >>>>> >>>>> :) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 8:39 AM, Raul Miller <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 3:46 AM, Erling Hellenäs >>>>>> >>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I doubt you can find reasonably accurate descriptions of this >>>>>>> >>>>>> functionality >>>>>> >>>>>>> (these four helper programs) anywhere else. >>>>>>> >>>>>> This suggests to me that you have not read >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.jsoftware.com/help/dictionary/dictb.htm >>>>>> nor >>>>>> http://www.jsoftware.com/help/dictionary/dicta.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> I am surprised how many people have not read the reference manual - >>>>>> not just in the J community but among technical people in general. >>>>>> >>>>>> I really don't know what to make of this. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Raul >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>> >>>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
