Thanks for the ref to the pdf, William.

I recall there's a result-caching facility in J which would loosely answer
to the description "superaccumulator", but I've forgotten offhand where to
look for its write-up. In amongst the Foreigns, I'd guess.

> > In opposition to that idea, it's worth remembering that between any two 
> > rational
numbers there is an uncountable infinity of irrational ones…
> Not particularly relevant; only a countable number of irrationals
can appear as the limit of computations.

I guess I'd agree. I was half remembering an old pure math course on
measure theory and Lebesgue integration. But a functional analyst's
"rational" isn't quite the same as a J-er's "rational", which includes _r1
and 1r_ .

I'm more worried about the theoretically irrational constants I need a lot,
which I'm going to have to approximate, like √2 and π. So I ought to stop
expecting unlimited precision and start thinking in terms of setting fixed
limits to the length of the denominator that can arise. I can just see
myself salting my code with:

   assert. 1000>#":saveit__=: myworkrational

That was supposed to be a joke but I'm not sure it was.

On Fri, 29 Mar 2019 at 20:46, William Tanksley, Jr <[email protected]>
wrote:

> I forgot to paste in the one _useful_ part of my intended message.
> Sorry about that. Here's a link to some work attempting to
> characterize a numerically unstable algorithm using a superaccumulator
> as a stabilizer:
>
> https://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~wongwf/papers/HiPC-2018.pdf
>
> -Wm
>
> On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 1:30 PM William Tanksley, Jr
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Ian Clark <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > One idea to come out of all this, which may or may not be original,
> but is
> > > impossible to contemplate addressing with floating-point numbers, is
> that
> > > inside a tool which is working with real-world observations, the
> numbers
> > > chiefly of interest will be small ones, in terms of the amount of
> storage
> > > they occupy, so that when designing iterative methods there may be some
> > > traction in steering away from large numbers into neighbouring small
> ones.
> >
> > Finding how to steer of this is one of the points of the
> > super-accumulator -- it keeps a finite bound on the error bars, which
> > allows for well-bounded speed, while allowing intermediates to include
> > both very small and very large values, with rounding to the final
> > format only when it's time to output.
> >
> > > In opposition to that idea, it's worth remembering that between any two
> > > rational numbers there is an uncountable infinity of irrational ones,
> >
> > Not particularly relevant; only a countable number of irrationals can
> > appear as the limit of computations. And some pairs of rationals have
> > no irrationals between them (for example, 0 and the nearest rational
> > to it, which is of the form 1/x, cannot have any irrationals between
> > them, even though (1/x and 1/(x-1)) has an countable infinity of
> > rationals between _them_).
> >
> > Chaitin proved that all of the accessible irrationals are a countable
> > set. (That is, the ones that can be named, defined, specified, or in
> > any way thought about, even when including the ones which can be shown
> > to be uncomputable such as his own "Omega" constant.) "The Tao that
> > can be named is not the true Tao."
> >
> > > and
> > > any attempt to avoid them might reintroduce the very sort of noise I'm
> > > aiming to eliminate.
> >
> > Don't worry -- you can't compute irrationals by a finite process. So
> > you don't have to avoid them, they'll automatically avoid you. :)
> >
> > > But the overwhelming sensation I have at the moment is one of
> admiration
> > > plus gratitude for the originators (and improvers) of J, for all that
> > > hidden work where nobody imagined it would matter.
> >
> > I am continually amazed.
> >
> > It reminds me of my first real math professor (after junior college).
> > He taught abstract algebra, and in particular he used a language
> > called "Forth" to explore finite group theory. It was very impressive
> > to be able to get my hands on those very abstract concepts. Even more
> > so because I knew Forth before I'd ever thought of learning abstract
> > algebra, and would have never guessed it would become a tool in a
> > mathematician's bag of tricks. J, on the other hand... I can see why
> > people don't learn it, but it's an amazing force multiplier once you
> > do.
> >
> > > Ian Clark
> >
> > -Wm
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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