my reply contains a distinctive example in the typo "naturnal" ... typos are annoyances in natural and artificial languages; homo sapiens can often still get "the message" in spite of typos.
OTOH a typo in code is often a game disruptor. On Mon., Jan. 18, 2021, 00:08 Bernie Eckhart, <[email protected]> wrote: > A natural language is one that evolves naturally like English, often over > centuries. > > The opposite is artificial languages which are mainly designed by homo > sapiens and are likely to be constrained by usage rules; an application > could be crafted to create artificial languages. > > Esperanto is a fine example of an artificial language. > > Also Klingon. > > "Programming languages" is a loose usage of the concept of "language" ‐- > one could not write a "1984" with any programming language. > > Naturnal and artificial languages can communicate ideas between most homo > sapiens while only a subset of homo sapiens are able to use programming > languages to guide the actions of computers. > > Ken Iverson titled his Turing Award lecture "Notation as a tool of > thought"; it's not my suggestion to stop talking about programming > languages, just be aware of the distinction. > > On Sun., Jan. 17, 2021, 11:00 Raul Miller, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> A natural language is a language which people use to talk with each other, >> >> In this context, an artificial language is a set of symbols which >> people use to configure machines. >> >> I hope this helps, >> >> -- >> Raul >> >> >> On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 10:50 AM Justin Paston-Cooper >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > All languages are fixed over a given Planck time. What is it for a >> language >> > to be artificial or not? Can it be objectively proved either way? >> > >> > On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 at 18:43, Hauke Rehr <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> > > Natural languages are flexible. Recipients of messages are >> > > forgiving, trying to understand what you meant. >> > > The rules are dynamic and at times even local or personal. >> > > >> > > This is much different from many artificial languages, >> > > in particular from programming languages. >> > > They have one set of fixed rules* (even if they are rules >> > > for declaring rules); the interpreter/compiler can only >> > > be told to handle a list of common mistakes but cannot >> > > intelligently try to understand anything never seen before. >> > > >> > > Therefore I think learning should be at least somewhat different, too. >> > > (And I used to learn even foreign languages by first studying >> > > their grammar, then learning a thesaurus and then applying them, >> > > building hopefully correct sentences. When a Spanish teacher began >> > > talking to us in Spanish from the start, I was overchallenged.) >> > > >> > > * yes, they are evolving – but for any version, they’re fixed >> > > >> > > Am 17.01.21 um 16:27 schrieb Henry Rich: >> > > > It gives them a wrong mental model of rank, which they must unlearn >> > > > later. This can have serious consequences, particularly if they >> get >> > > > the idea that u"n is 'like u with the rank set to n' (if that were >> true, >> > > > u"1"_1 would be the same as u"_ 1, which it isn't). >> > > > >> > > > Ken thought you should learn J like you learn a natural language, by >> > > > seeing and saying, and creating your own rules internally. I think >> he >> > > > was wrong when it comes to verb rank. The idea is so new, and so >> > > > subtle, that users left to themselves get it wrong. I had one very >> > > > bright student who, discovering that (,1) + 1 2 3 gave an error, >> found >> > > > that +/ would not give an error, and ever after applied / to every >> > > > verb. He created his own rule, you see. >> > > > >> > > > Henry Rich >> > > > >> > > > On 1/17/2021 12:24 AM, Raul Miller wrote: >> > > >> Does it really cost them that much? >> > > >> >> > > >> Given that beginner problems generally do not involve >> multi-megabytes >> > > >> of data, I mean... >> > > >> >> > > >> Thanks, >> > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > ---------------------- >> > > mail written using NEO >> > > neo-layout.org >> > > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > For information about J forums see >> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> > > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
