Skip - I think the way we mentioned _is_ extremely simple.  It consists of
the following steps:
1) at the top of the wiki page, click on "Edit",
2) add keywords to the "#pragma keywords" statement at the very top of the
page,
3) click "Save".

However, you make some good points about how this does not help us with
non-wiki material.  Also, this method does not work for an immutable page;
you'd have to create a page pointing to the immutable one and add the
keywords there.

Could we agree on a more searchable phrase for J, like "J-language"?

By the way, I'm by no means a wiki expert unless that encompasses knowing
only about seven things.  You can see these seven things on my "Wiki Tips"
page (http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/DevonMcCormick/WikiTips)  which exists
partly just to remind myself of the few things I've learned.

In any case, I'm glad to see others interested in this peristent problem of
finding J-language information.

Regards,

Devon

On 2/2/08, Skip Cave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Oleg, Devon,
>
> In order for the keyword scheme to work it must be extremely simple, so
> that anybody can add keywords, without having to read directions, write
> scripts, or know how to create a wiki page. Keep in mind, users looking
> for answers are not interested in building wikis, only finding the
> answers to their problems. The keyword-add process should be so easy,
> that even casual wiki or forum browsers would have no problem dropping
> in a couple of keywords, if they felt it would help someone else have an
> easier time finding their discovery.
>
> The basic rules that need to be in place to really make the keyword
> scheme work, are as follows:
>
> 1. Every forum post, wiki page, or reference book chapter, or article on
> J, should have two things at the bottom of that post or page:
>     a. An active link which says "Add a new keyword" that, when clicked,
> will bring up a dialog box that enables the user to enter a list of
> keywords. Any keywords entered in the box will be added to the keyword
> list for that page or post.
>     b. The list of all keywords that have been added to that page or
> post should be displayed at the bottom of the page. Perhaps the list
> could be hidden by default, with a view/hide button/link to allow
> viewing or hiding the list. We may have to convert some of the reference
> docs to html to make this keyword-add scheme ubiquitous across all of
> the J documentation, but I believe that it would be worth the effort.
>
> 2a. There should be one single search engine that encompasses all of the
> forum posts, wiki pages, reference books, discussions, and articles on
> J. That search engine should be prominently displayed on  the home page,
> wiki home, reference book home, etc., and anywhere else that a user
> might go to find information about J.   Actually, this has already been
> done pretty well by the J software folks. The engine just doesn't find
> the appropriate item often enough, which isn't the fault of the search
> engine. The information is usually out there. The users just don't enter
> in the right search terms. The keyword scheme can help fix this.
>
> 2b. A very brief explanation of the keyword scheme should be displayed
> along with every search engine box, and also perhaps with every "add a
> new keyword" link, so users will understand how they can help others
> find the things that they discover, by adding their own keywords.
>
> Devon's #pragma scheme is fine for experienced wiki builders to add
> keywords to wiki pages. IMHO, simple as it is, the average wiki-browsing
> user won't take the time to learn how to add keywords to the wiki that
> way. Also, it does nothing for the forum posts or reference docs, which
> have much great info hidden in them. The keyword plan must be structured
> simply enough so that as soon as someone finds the information they
> need, they could add a keyword or two which would have helped them find
> their information quicker.
>
> A little incentive could go a long way to help the cause. JSoftware
> could have a raffle so that registered keyword "taggers" would get an
> entry to the raffle every time that the added a keyword to the doc. The
> taggers could be tracked using cookies. The prize shouldn't be too big,
> to discourage inappropriate tagging, but big enough to encourage typing
> in a couple of keywords that could help others find that useful post or
> page.
>
> There are many "user-graded" posting schemes out there, (Digg, Slashdot,
> etc) where users grade the importance or usefulness of an article or
> blog, so this keyword concept is not too far out. However, the J
> keyword mechanism is about adding information to a post, to improve its
> chance of being found, instead of a grading scheme. Both schemes rely on
> people's altruistic natures. Actually, the keyword mechanism is a
> simple-minded way to back into Tim Berners-Lee's "semantic web" dream,
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_Web) without all of the
> technical complexities Tim throws in.
>
> When you think about it, if every document, post or wiki page had a
> unique keyword in it, such as jlanguage, or jay language, or jsoftware,
> or Iverson, etc., then general searches on Google which included one of
> those keywords, would find the same set of information that the
> specialized J search engine would find...
>
> This discussion may be moot, as I am not sure that there is any easy way
> to add the described mechanisms to the forum postings or reference docs.
> If it could be done, it would be an interesting experiment that could
> potentially revolutionize how web information is categorized and
> discovered.
>
> Skip
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
>



-- 
Devon McCormick, CFA
^me^ at acm.
org is my
preferred e-mail
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