[chhattisgarh-net] Digest Number 1972[4 Attachments]

chhattisgarh-net Thu, 10 Sep 2009 02:53:25 -0700

Title: chhattisgarh-net

Messages In This Digest (7 Messages)

1a.: Re: Sickle cell anaemia grips 18 percent of Chhattisgarh From: clivesemmens
1b.: Re: Sickle cell anaemia grips 18 percent of Chhattisgarh From: adarsh chandrakar
1c.: Re: Sickle cell anaemia grips 18 percent of Chhattisgarh From: alok_ksharma

2a.: Re: Distribution of forest-land deed in Chhattisgarh will be over by From: rahul

3a.: Re: People oppose land acquisition for Power plant in Janjgir From: reachppatel

4.: Budhan Bai: Evolving new Pandvaani with peoples concern From: Awaz Lucknow

5.: Pictures of New Pandvaani of Budhan bai Meshram From: Awaz Lucknow

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1a.: Re: Sickle cell anaemia grips 18 percent of Chhattisgarh

Posted by: "clivesemmens" cliveksemm...@googlemail.com clivesemmens

Wed Sep 9, 2009 4:19 am (PDT)

Alok wrote:

> Finally, none of the above arguments should determine a social mandate on who marries whom. The choice of a life partner is a personal decision and should remain that way. It is nobody's business but the girl and the guy's to decide if they want to get married to each other.

Absolutely right!

Add to that, in the particular case of sickle cell anaemia: there's a good reason this particular mutation is so successful in Chhattisgarh, as it is in parts of Africa, and it's not a mutation that we ought to be trying to eliminate at all. While having two copies of the gene gives rise to a serious disease, being a carrier confers a substantial benefit: a considerable degree of resistance to malaria. This is why natural selection has not eliminated the mutation (equally, it doesn't become very common because the double copy of the gene is so debilitating).

You may think natural resistance to malaria is unimportant in these days of insecticides, mosquito netting, insect repellants, prophylactic medicine, and in the last resort medical treatment - but these things are not available to everyone by any means; neither prophylactic medicine nor medical treatment are likely to remain effective in the long term due to the development of resistance to drugs; and insecticides bring other problems with them.

There are two other genetic "diseases" common amongst forest dwellers, for the same reasons and with the same benefit: thalassaemia, and G6PD deficiency.

Don't think of any of them as a disease, they're no such thing. They're no more a disease than white skin (beneficial in cloudy climates for the production of vitamin D) or black skin (protective against skin damage from ultra-violet light in sunny climates).

Clive Semmens

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1b.: Re: Sickle cell anaemia grips 18 percent of Chhattisgarh

Posted by: "adarsh chandrakar" adars...@yahoo.com adarshch

Wed Sep 9, 2009 10:13 pm (PDT)

Namaskar Sharmaji,

Whatever you are assuming is just theory and not science. It's just not sickle cell but there are multiple genetic deficiency gets created if the intermixing is not happening. The deficiency remains in the lineage and become more stronger where as when the intermixing takes place then the genes fight with each other and removes the deficiency.

If I assume in an average 18% in all the genetic lineage such types of problems exists then as per recommendation you are asking those 18% not to mutate. I don't think that's the practical solution. The problem never gets solved when you try to avoid it but its only solved when you attack it.

We are in the world of science so please go ahead and do little research on why scientists recommends that whenever there is inter-racial mixing happens the humans born out of them has been genetically stronger and are also evolved in intellect. You don't have to do medical research and just go and sampling and data analysis all across the world and you'll find my following statement to be true. The average IQ of the people in coastal areas are more compared to in the central area of any land. The reason being there has been sufficient amount of inter-racial mixing has happened in the history in those parts of lands.

Modern scientists also recommends that if you mutate with the close genetic lineage then the child born out of them will be comparatively weak and will have more chance of problem during the delivery and multiple other potential genetic issues. So whom do you want to believe scientists or few religious people who don't give any logic for their actions neither is ready to discuss the same for rationality? Every one of us have a choice and what you want to choose is your FREE WILL.

in HIM
Adarsh

Re: Sickle cell anaemia grips 18 percent of Chhattisgarh
Posted by: "alok_ksharma" alok_ksharma@yahoo.com alok_ksharma
Tue Sep 8, 2009 3:37 pm (PDT)

Think about it again. There is only one way genetic mutaions can be
eliminated from a population - when individuals with such mutations do
not reproduce. With the death of all such individuals, the mutation is
eliminated. But beyond that, you can only hope to confine that mutation in one section of the population by discouraging interbreeding across the unmutated and mutated populations.

If, as is the case now, the sickle cell mutations are confined to
demographically segregated populations, what's the point of deliberate
intermixing? That will just explode the number of carriers in the
entire population resulting after a few generations in everyone being a carrier thus making it impossible for anyone to reproduce without the
risk of the baby having sickle cell disease. For example, everyone
being a carrier will lead to ATLEAST 25% (do the math) of the
population suffering from the disease in the next generation which will
be much more than 9%( from the 200K sample observation so far).

Also, there is no need to mandate an intercaste marriage to prevent
this disease. The technology is available to screen at the individual
level. You can screen at the individual level before marriage to find
out if your potential offsprings will have the disease or will be
carriers or unmutated.

Finally, none of the above arguments should determine a social mandate
on who marries whom. The choice of a life partner is a personal
decision and should remain that way. It is nobody's business but the
girl and the guy's to decide if they want to get married to each other.

Alok

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1c.: Re: Sickle cell anaemia grips 18 percent of Chhattisgarh

Posted by: "alok_ksharma" alok_ksha...@yahoo.com alok_ksharma

Wed Sep 9, 2009 10:18 pm (PDT)

Dear Clive,

I agree that there is an evolutionary basis for this mutation. But we cannot leave it to the nature to decide who lives and who dies.

The way this would play out in nature is that 25% of offsprings will be left unchanged, 50% will have better resistance to malaria and 25% will die at an early age due to anaemia. Sacrificing 25% to make 50% have a better chance of survival is nature's way. But it is crude and brutal and not acceptable to us.

So we have to screen to find out those at risk and intervene early to prevent those deaths. Or in a decade or so when we have complete control over the genetic code, try to revert the mutation at zygote stage itself so that no one is born with this condition.

Alok

--- In chhattisgarh-n...@yahoogroups.com, "clivesemmens" <cliveksemmens@...> wrote:
>
> Alok wrote:
>
> > Finally, none of the above arguments should determine a social mandate on who marries whom. The choice of a life partner is a personal decision and should remain that way. It is nobody's business but the girl and the guy's to decide if they want to get married to each other.
>
> Absolutely right!
>
> Add to that, in the particular case of sickle cell anaemia: there's a good reason this particular mutation is so successful in Chhattisgarh, as it is in parts of Africa, and it's not a mutation that we ought to be trying to eliminate at all. While having two copies of the gene gives rise to a serious disease, being a carrier confers a substantial benefit: a considerable degree of resistance to malaria. This is why natural selection has not eliminated the mutation (equally, it doesn't become very common because the double copy of the gene is so debilitating).
>
> You may think natural resistance to malaria is unimportant in these days of insecticides, mosquito netting, insect repellants, prophylactic medicine, and in the last resort medical treatment - but these things are not available to everyone by any means; neither prophylactic medicine nor medical treatment are likely to remain effective in the long term due to the development of resistance to drugs; and insecticides bring other problems with them.
>
> There are two other genetic "diseases" common amongst forest dwellers, for the same reasons and with the same benefit: thalassaemia, and G6PD deficiency.
>
> Don't think of any of them as a disease, they're no such thing. They're no more a disease than white skin (beneficial in cloudy climates for the production of vitamin D) or black skin (protective against skin damage from ultra-violet light in sunny climates).
>
> Clive Semmens
>

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Messages in this topic (6)

2a.: Re: Distribution of forest-land deed in Chhattisgarh will be over by

Posted by: "rahul" aaroh...@yahoo.com aarohini

Wed Sep 9, 2009 4:24 am (PDT)

Dear Malini,

The forest rights act clearly mentions that the "patta" being given to the tribal beneficiary cannot be transferred to a third party so there is no question of such a third party alienating that land from her through legal means.

At the moment the tribal has no claims to the land either private or communitarian. The forest rights act gives the tribal not only private title to the land she is cultivating but also tribal communities are given rights to the management of the forests and all other resources on the community land. Thus if a project is proposed on this land then the permission of the gram sabha has to be taken first.

This is in agreement with the provisions of PESA also.

So despite many other flaws in both PESA and the FRA they are progressive legislations. And that is why the government is not implementing the two acts. While it is difficult to get PESA legally implemented despite the landmark SAMATHA judgment there is greater scope of getting the FRA implemented.

For instance in Madhya Pradesh none of the steps prescribed in the FRA subsequent to the submission of applications by the tribals have been completed yet the rumours are that 90% of these applications have
been rejected. So far there is no concrete information from the government in this regard.

We are going to file an RTI in Alirajpur district in a few days ( the first attempt to file an RTI by a tribal activist in this regard came a cropper because the officer fobbed him off with the oral reply that all the information was on a website and gave him a link to that website. When I accessed that link I found that it was the MP Forest Department intranet that requires a password for access).

Rahul Banerjee
74,Krishnodayanagar,Khandwa naka,Indore,Madhya Pradesh, India-452001
Cell no: +919926791773
webpage: http://rahulbanerjee.notlong.com
blog: http://anar-kali.blogspot.com
________________________________
From: malini_s . <malin...@sify.com>
To: chhattisgarh-n...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 8 September, 2009 12:17:25
Subject: [chhattisgarh-net] Re:Distribution of forest-land deed in Chhattisgarh will be over by De

I often wonder if it is being too shortsighted to keep wondering 'how'
can this task of handing over forest pattas to rightful tribal owners
be accomplished and in so short a time, etc. Perhaps we are missing a
much bigger gameplan of the State of pushing a community towards
private ownership and then claim it back to profit-making vested
interests - the corporates. Afterall isn't LAA and attempts to
amend protective measures such as the state tenancy acts a calculated
move towards that? Aren't the torchbearers of tribal rights being
entrapped into achieving what the advocates of capitalists actually
seek ?

Malini

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Messages in this topic (2)

3a.: Re: People oppose land acquisition for Power plant in Janjgir

Posted by: "reachppatel" reachppa...@yahoo.com reachppatel

Wed Sep 9, 2009 10:15 pm (PDT)

Problem is that, there are corrupt faces all around who take pride in labelling themselaves as champions of developmenmt but have no shame to play various mischiefs.

Nexus of the corrupt people in power with those who take pride in taking law in their hand and break it to help the law breakers and make money in the process, though by illegal means, there are some ignorant faces who believe it as the art to create wealth.

There is a strong need to push all those people behind the bars. Jan Sunwai has become the biggest joke of the day but who will waste time to tell the truth when there are people in power who have their own way of working to make illgal money but not only they but some faces who have mischivious motive try to defend them and their actions as development, despite they know pretty well that the land losers are falling victim to those while collared criminals. But they have their friends who are always ready to label all those who speak the truth as leftist or communists. It is only because of such faces, Naxalism is growing.

Pravin Patel.

--- In chhattisgarh-n...@yahoogroups.com, "dearsaby" <dears...@...> wrote:
>
> Dear friends,
>
> Can you give me a single instant where the factory has been established after completing the legal formalities as per the law and following the rehabilitation rules and regulations of the govt.of India.?
>
> Can you tell me one instant where jansunvai was properly conducted?Where affected people were informed in advance of the plans to organise Jansunvai etc.?
>
> I think Mr Goel talks about rule of law and opposes Naxalism but at the same breadth he supports this "development terrorism" blindly
>
> Terrorism can only get terrorism in return
>
> Sebastian
>
> In chhattisgarh-n...@yahoogroups.com, op goel <opgoel@> wrote:
> >
> > if my activist friends have their way then all developmental activities should be stopped forthwith. congrats.
> >
> > opgoel
> >
> > --- On Fri, 9/4/09, Goldy George <goldymgeorge10@> wrote:
> >
> > From: Goldy George <goldymgeorge10@>
> > Subject: [chhattisgarh-net] People oppose land acquisition for Power plant in Janjgir
> > To: goldymgeorge10@
> > Date: Friday, September 4, 2009, 10:02 PM
> >
> > http://deshbandhu.co.in/newsdetail/13982/2/157
> >
>

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4.: Budhan Bai: Evolving new Pandvaani with peoples concern

Posted by: "Awaz Lucknow" awaz...@hotmail.com

Wed Sep 9, 2009 10:50 pm (PDT)

[Attachment(s) from Awaz Lucknow included below]

Budhan Bai:
Evolving new Pandvaani with peoples concern

Dear friends,

Its to introduce Pandvaani artist Budhan Bai. She belongs to Mahar community, one of the most poor and deprived community having lowest strata in caste system. She is almost illiterate- passed her primary exam this year at the age of 32. After a silence of about eight years, she took her re-entry in Pandavaani but with a different mode. Now, she is endeavoring to evolve new Pandvaani not only at content level but to add new dimensions in terms of form & style also.

Obviously, new Pandvaani is to focus ongoing Mahabharat of rights and justice with totally changed equation-- Kauraves are in minority while Pandaves are in majority. She portraits todays Kauraves as power hungry politicians, unaccountable companies, corrupt bureaucrats, inhuman police etc. Pandaves are poor masses facing marginalization and further marginalization due to governments anti people policies.

Intent of her new Pandvaani is to educate, mobilize and activate deprived communities, particularly women to achieve their right to live with dignity and equity. She is transforming her Pandvaani into an interactive process, a two way communication. And undoubtedly, culture can be made instrumental to break the status quo.

It is worth mentioning that she also got overwhelming response on her song during Raipur Satyagrah of Release Dr Binayak Sen campaign : Chhatisgarh ha kahat hey, jiyan de haman la.

She is an activist of Jurmil Morcha, an organization of poor people of Ambagarh Chouki block of Rajnandgaon district. The organization came into existence on January this year. Her five member core group is comprised of women from downtrodden class. All are poor and less literate but enlightened enough as per their exposure.

I am attaching a write up based on informal conversation with her. It is a sketch of her life, courage and determination. Some photos are also attached.

I salute Budhan Bai for her versatility, creativity and sensitivity.

Adiyog
19/1151, Indira Nagar
Lucknow-206016
Mob 09415011487

Attachment(s) from Awaz Lucknow

1 of 1 File(s)

Pandvaani artist Budhan Bai Meshram.pdf

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5.

Pictures of New Pandvaani of Budhan bai Meshram

Posted by: "Awaz Lucknow" awaz...@hotmail.com

Wed Sep 9, 2009 10:55 pm (PDT)

[Attachment(s) from Awaz Lucknow included below]

Dear moderator,

I missed to attach photographs with my previous mail. Sorry for inconvenience.

Adiyog

Attachment(s) from Awaz Lucknow

3 of 3 Photo(s)

Budhan Bai- on street.jpg

Budhan Bai Meshram 1.jpg

Budhan Bai- on stage.jpg

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