Amie, i think your message was a good one ... changing the diet should always be researched... so its done right and the pet is safe... perhaps your friend didnt know to make sure not to over feed ground bone with not enough liver? the balance is very important. but the SIGNS are VERY obvious and easy to correct in a timely fashion. you either are feeding way too many dogs to pay attention to them all or too busy or something... when you get 80%meat-10%bone and 10% organ it DOES work for ALL dogs ... they are all CARNIVOURS. unless you are feeding a very sick dog then id say do it sooner!!... but, you are RIGHT, do the research (which is what we are starting here)... and pay attention to your dog ... pancreatitrus comes with a high fever... and a dog with a fever is very easy to see ... just touch him. an impaction is easy to spot and easy to avoid. 80-10-10. darcy
--- On Fri, 8/20/10, Amie McCaig <[email protected]> wrote: From: Amie McCaig <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Chihuahuas] Raw diet To: [email protected] Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 10:46 PM Darcy, I don't believe I stated that feeding raw kill's chi's. I mentioned that my friend, who fed a raw diet killed her chi. I was using her experience only as an example; My message was for people to research all aspect's. what works for some, might not work for others. If you feed raw, and your happy with the results; then I'm happy for you. Amie --- On Sat, 8/21/10, Darcy Jacobs <[email protected]> wrote: From: Darcy Jacobs <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Chihuahuas] Raw diet To: [email protected] Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 2:08 AM amie, I'm not understanding how either of these things can happen in reality... when you put quarters in a meat grinder the bones become mash... mash cant get impacted..and you have to pay attention to your dogs output no matter what he eats .... you have to have NO output for quite a while to become impacted... and liver will reverse constipation over night. and pancreatitius is caused by over feeding FATS ..so trim your chicken..... i agree these dogs are not tiny wolves and the raw plan has to be carefully monitored ... i monitor my danes... but to state raw diets kill chi's is misleading... how many kibble companies killed chi's in the recalls alone? not to mention the slow diseaSE ROUTE. MY GREAT DANE GOT PANCREATITUS TOO.. long before i raw fed.... FROM cheese ! FEEDING HER, HER PILLS IN CHEESE. sorry didnt mean caps... im a very slow typer . im just saying we dont know what else she was feeding those pups ... maybe butter? maybe cheese? there are a LOT OF THINGS IN PLAY. you are right in that knowledge is power. but im saying we can do better than just kibbles and bits here. Darcy --- On Fri, 8/20/10, Amie McCaig <[email protected]> wrote: From: Amie McCaig <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Chihuahuas] Raw diet To: [email protected] Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 9:45 PM I was going to post my opinion on this topic when the conversation started a few weeks ago... I don't want to cause an issues, however I feel like you should know both sides. I have a very dear friend and breeder of champion chihuahuas, who use to feed a raw diet, five years she did this.... Until 2 of her champion dogs died from pancreatitis. she fed all human grade meat, that she purchased at the grocery store. they both died receiving vet care. when the vet finally got out of her what she was feeding, she said she see a lot of dogs die from feeding raw. not to mention how many times she has opened a dog up with impacted bones, even food that has been ground-up. She still has a friend that feed raw, and her dogs have the nastiest teeth she has ever seen...if clean teeth is your concern, there are a lot of good products to use for that. there is a lot of information on raw diets. PLEASE.. do your own research.... one last thought, please remember a chihuahua's are a TOY DOG, not wolves. they would never survive in the wild and so far removed from wolves, they are a man made breed, so lets not pretend they are toy wolves... and again, this is MY OPINION... please do your own research, before you put our beloved pets life at risk. amie --- On Sat, 8/21/10, Darcy Jacobs <[email protected]> wrote: From: Darcy Jacobs <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Chihuahuas] Raw diet To: [email protected] Date: Saturday, August 21, 2010, 1:13 AM well it takes a very long time to make change... i just know once a raw plan is established and the dog has been given enough time to properly adjust i know of no one who has gone back to kibble...and im on 3 very busy boards. ... you let me know if anyone poses a question you want help to answer =)~... darcy --- On Fri, 8/20/10, Joyce mccarthy <[email protected]> wrote: From: Joyce mccarthy <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Chihuahuas] Raw diet To: [email protected] Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 6:30 PM Like I said I am going to try and figure out the cost to feed my gang...I asked about this amongst my own group and the breeders there and there is more CON then there is Pro but from seeing how the dogs go up and down at times and how much waste they create...I am willing to try.. On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 6:18 PM, Darcy Jacobs <[email protected]> wrote: you have gotten great advice... id just add..... use your liver and bone content to adjust the elimination consistancy of the dogs... too hard add more liver too soft add more bone... darcy --- On Fri, 8/20/10, dasha <[email protected]> wrote: From: dasha <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [Chihuahuas] Raw diet To: [email protected] Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 3:13 PM Well you know breast fed babies don't eat as much at a single feeding as bottle fed babies. And it is harder to gauge how much they have had. I have done both and putting a breast fed baby on a schedule never made any sense to me at all. Sometimes the more people learn, the more complicated things become. Simple can really be better. Plus what goes around usually comes around Sheila From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Deanna Corey Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 2:31 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Chihuahuas] Raw diet I had so many friends that got on me for demand feeding Dasha...they thought I was nuts...but ya have to remember that was 25 years ago! People have learned a lot since then...or should I say "unlearned"...sometimes the old simple ways are the best...just like we are un-learning with our dogs as well! Hugs In Him, Deanna And the Corey Crew: Wife to my best friend: Mark-ie Pooh...married 29 years 6/27/10 Mom to 4 Children: Andrea 26, Jimmy 22, Baxter 19 and Molly 11 Grandma to 4: Lori, Evelyn Rose, Jack and Cameron Mom to Fur babies: Nugget (MiniPoodle)www.dogster.com/dogs/1085245, Shuai-Li (Shih Tzu)www.dogster.com/dogs/1129251, Bella-Rose (Pomeranian)http://www.dogster.com/dogs/1136706 Mouse (Chihuahua)www.dogster.com/dogs/1005934, Myrtle May (Chihuahua) and Caleb (Rott/chow mix)www.dogster.com/dogs/988612 Mom to feathered kids: Stella (Blue and Gold Macaw) and Stanley (Double Yellow Headed Amazon) and the curtain climber: Miles www.catster.com/cats/895000 From: dasha <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, August 20, 2010 11:22:28 AM Subject: RE: [Chihuahuas] Raw diet I could not imagine feeding a breast fed baby on a schedule. That seems like more hassle than it is worth cause breast fed babies eat differently than the bottle fed ones.. From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Deanna Corey Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 2:16 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Chihuahuas] Raw diet Joyce...I needed to add something I forgot...with mine under 6 months I feed till they are full...I don't weigh everything out. I know many would disagree with this but puppies should not be regulated in my opinion...and I feed anyone under a year 3 times a day not two...especially tiny Chi's. BUT i am also the nut who breast fed my babies on demand when they wanted it...not scheduled LOL! Hugs In Him, Deanna And the Corey Crew: Wife to my best friend: Mark-ie Pooh...married 29 years 6/27/10 Mom to 4 Children: Andrea 26, Jimmy 22, Baxter 19 and Molly 11 Grandma to 4: Lori, Evelyn Rose, Jack and Cameron Mom to Fur babies: Nugget (MiniPoodle)www.dogster.com/dogs/1085245, Shuai-Li (Shih Tzu)www.dogster.com/dogs/1129251, Bella-Rose (Pomeranian)http://www.dogster.com/dogs/1136706 Mouse (Chihuahua)www.dogster.com/dogs/1005934, Myrtle May (Chihuahua) and Caleb (Rott/chow mix)www.dogster.com/dogs/988612 Mom to feathered kids: Stella (Blue and Gold Macaw) and Stanley (Double Yellow Headed Amazon) and the curtain climber: Miles www.catster.com/cats/895000 From: Joyce mccarthy <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, August 20, 2010 10:56:20 AM Subject: Re: [Chihuahuas] Raw diet Thanks Deanna I have fed them meats before but not raw...I know a no no LOL..1.2 oz seems like nothing per dog but maybe being raw is the difference..I will have to look at the grinder as well...and other then the egg shells is there anything else I add to it?? In my group so many are against the RAW diet but I think several have had issues with dry food and diets lately.. On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Deanna Corey <[email protected]> wrote: Joyce, Lets say each Chi weighs an average of 5lbs. ...you say you have 10...that is 50lbs of dog you need to feed. Each dog needs 3% of their body weight in food each day...so for 10, 5lbs dogs that would be 24 ounces each day for 10 dogs OR roughly 1and 1/2 lbs of food total a day...I would round it up to 2lbs each day to be safe. I might use the left over for treats or to have some first thing in the morning. I would divide each meal into 2 servings of 1.2 oz each and feed one in the morning and one in the early evening. I would start Chi's on chicken breast as it is the easiest meat to digest. The dark meat has more fat so a little harder to digest. I would remove the skin of the breasts and I would throw them into the grinder and feed ground. No worries about bone splinters with the little guys and they will still get the nutrients from the bone. Then after I had them use to the breasts for awhile I would add in other meats...dark meat, lamb, lean beef, etc. If you do not have a grinder then what I would do is to still start with the breasts and chop the meat with a knife into appropriate size Chi chunks. Then I would take a few dry eggs shells from my breakfast and pulverize them either in a little electric coffee grinder, a mixing wand or a little pestal/mortar type thing and add 1 tsp of the egg shell per 1 lb of meat to my breast chunks to make up for the calcium loss from no bone until I could get a grinder. If you want a grinder...the best I have found is the maverick...$99 through www.pierceequipment.com then put 575 Watt MM5501 Meat Food Grinder- in the search bar at the sight. Here are all the ratios you will need in the future: 1.Dogs need 3% of their DESIRED body weight each day...as a general rule 2. To find 3%...take the weight of your dog (we will use 5 lbs for example here) and multiply that weight by 16 5lbs x 16=80 80= ounces your dog weighs now divide 80 by 3%= 2.4 oz. Each 5lb dog needs 2.4 oz of food each day. Use a calculator and punch in...in this order: 80 / 3 % This formula will be different if your dog weighs more or less than 5 lbs...but whatever your dogs weight??? Just multiply by 16 to get your dogs weight in ounces...only the number 80 will change in the formula...then you will have the amount of OUNCES of food each dog needs to have. 3. Dogs need a mix of 85% meat, 10% bone and 5% organ (liver, kidney) (don't feed organ meats daily) Hugs In Him, Deanna And the Corey Crew: Wife to my best friend: Mark-ie Pooh...married 29 years 6/27/10 Mom to 4 Children: Andrea 26, Jimmy 22, Baxter 19 and Molly 11 Grandma to 4: Lori, Evelyn Rose, Jack and Cameron Mom to Fur babies: Nugget (MiniPoodle)www.dogster.com/dogs/1085245, Shuai-Li (Shih Tzu)www.dogster.com/dogs/1129251, Bella-Rose (Pomeranian)http://www.dogster.com/dogs/1136706 Mouse (Chihuahua)www.dogster.com/dogs/1005934, Myrtle May (Chihuahua) and Caleb (Rott/chow mix)www.dogster.com/dogs/988612 Mom to feathered kids: Stella (Blue and Gold Macaw) and Stanley (Double Yellow Headed Amazon) and the curtain climber: Miles www.catster.com/cats/895000 From: Joyce mccarthy <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Fri, August 20, 2010 9:40:54 AM Subject: [Chihuahuas] Raw diet Darcy and those who feed?? Ok say for every 10 dogs one may have.. all chi's how much food would you make at a time and and do you have Recipes you go by?? -- Joyce www.mtnviewchis.webs.com -- Joyce www.mtnviewchis.webs.com -- Joyce www.mtnviewchis.webs.com
