I am curious why she can't be with you when you're home. I just recently adopted a chi who "whined all the time". He still whines when left but he's gotten over it when I'm home. While I'm working at home, he sleeps in a little bed nearby. At night in his little bed in the bedroom. No whining. He just wanted to be with his person, not shut in a crate.
Sandy -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of freddyscribbles Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 9:13 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Chihuahuas] Re: SOS! Re-homing Pia Late May - early June - sooner if something can be arranged Hi Sheila Thank you for responding! I have heard and read reports about Millan - I think his show is entertaining, but not a 'teaching aid'. But I suppose if one person learns that getting angry and yelling st or hitting your dog doesn't actually work, than that's been worthwhile. His books are only marginally better, but if I find something in there that I can modify and use to my advantage, why not? I nearly flipped out when I heard he'd been using choke collars on dogs. At this point, I'm all over the internet. Particularly here because, well, who better to help with chihuahuas than owners who've dealt with rescues? I mention Cesar simply because he's easily accessible. A lot of the other sources are unnamed. Some of what I've been doing has come from experience working with quite a lot of larger dogs. Which still doesn't always suit the instability issues as these were well balanced dogs. No rescues will take her right now because of the kennel cough. I have already proposed fostering for OC Chihuahua Rescue. Or at least working with them. Although I hadn't planned on placing Pia. She was supposed to be my dog. She is on meds until Saturday. At which point I need to evaluate the situation and see if another trip to the vet is necessary. And if she's well enough, I need to schedule an appointment to finish vaccinations and get her spayed. Exercise does seem to be a major key. A very, very major key. Took a two mile walk with Pia and the other dog this morning. One on each side. No incidents - a little skittish in the morning. But for the most part she does well on a leash. Initially she wants to lead. Which is easy enough to correct. And she blessedly she largely ignores other high-energy barking dogs in yards that we pass. I had a calm dog by the time I got home. Or at least a tired one. Basic reward based training when we got home - great way to get her meds to her. Headed off the howl fest before it had a chance to get started. And now she's quite happily curled up asleep on her bed. I'd have enrolled in her in a puppy class immediately, except due to KC and the delay on a few key vaccinations because of this, it's not possible. I have tried the petting thing. The long hours just sort of hanging with the dog - typical human means of showing affection. There has not been a single incident where prolonged cuddling has not made the separation anxiety worse. Petting as reward seems to be okay. But, the lap dog thing - not so much. Right now - the primary issue seems to be the separation anxiety. Which results in the screaming. Which is the part that's driving me crazy. Again...walking seems to help. A lot. I wish I'd started that from day one except 1. she was really quite ill 2. I had read that chihuahuas aren't big walkers, can't walk far, don't walk far, get tired easily - and maybe that would be typical of the breed. It is not true for Pia. The first one was a reasonable excuse not to walk the dog for a day or two. The second is just bollocks. I reckon she could have gone longer than two miles. I also notice that I tend to post a lot more when she's freaking out. And be a bit more aggressive because I've usually had it, and with her in another room away from me, it's sort of venting. Yes the howling is driving me crazy. Yes I think she's going to be an excellent dog. Yes, there are very good positive things here to work with. Yes, I tend to take a more rigid approach to animals than a lot of people. I don't think I've ever baby talked to a dog. But then, I don't baby talk to children either. But I've never seen dogs as four legged humans. Part of the family? Yes. Human? No. So...I'm still trying to adjust. She's still trying to adjust. Excessive cuddling just isn't helping anyone. And I don't think, just because of her size, she needs to be a lap dog. Or carried around. When I am working directly with her, there is neither anger or frustration. There is none of the frenetic late night typing exasperation that her howling elicits. It's just - work. Working together towards a result. When I am with the dog, I am calm, even tempered. Firm but not overly harsh. Completely in control of my emotions and reactions. At least around her. It's like dealing with the horse when it fell in the pool - I had two choices. I could flip out and make the situation worse. Or I could act, and get him out safely and freak out about it later once the trouble has passed. Pia is the same way. When I'm working with her, I'm working with her - that is my focus - calm, deliberate action. When she's put away or I'm out, I bang my head on the table. Yes, things are bad. But when I'm with the dog working, that's not what I let myself focus on. This has just been a bad mix. There are a lot of things that could have gone very right. A lot of things, unfortunately, have gone rather wrong. I misjudged her personality and energy levels - she was a lot sicker than I thought, and this meant there was quite a lot of malaise when I first was introduced to her. That is my inexperience. If I had someone here to help me so that I could get a break every once in awhile, that would have also helped. A walking buddy. Or someone else who could take one of two daily walking shifts. I don't blame the dog for the behavior. I never have. I'll see how two walks a day go. And maybe I can start re-introducing cuddle time. Right now is not the time. Play time. Reward/work time. Head petting. But the lap dog thing...no go. That has always had a noticeably negative effect. And as I said...there is no reason for her to be a lap dog. Being tiny isn't a good enough excuse. As for the screaming - once it escalates to the point it did last night, I don't know how to stop it short of giving in and letting her out. And I cannot believe that this would be an appropriate way to handle the situation. One more thing...and this is a general point. The advice 'She just wants to be with you. So give her a lot more loving because that will help her get over x.y.z' or those who get peevish when I clearly state that I'm not a huge dog cuddler - cuddling a dog that's exhibiting behavior you're trying to correct is like shoving candy down a child's throat to shut him up. Neither small creature is served particularly well by these psychological pacifiers. And small dog does not equate to lap dog. She may want to be on my lap. That doesn't mean she gets to be on my lap. A larger dog may want to be on the furniture. That doesn't mean he is allowed on the furniture. 'If you didn't want a lap dog, why did you get a chihuahua'...Yes. I've been asked this. Lap Dog is a human invention. The only thing that makes it a lap dog is size and a person's willingness to have a dog on their lap. A chihuahua does NOT have to be a lap dog. Apologies for getting my hackles up a bit on this one point - I've had some people throw a fit because I don't let the dog sleep in my bed, in my room, run all over the house, sit in my lap. That is just about as frustrating as dealing with her behavior. There are two huge things that Pia needs to learn. 1. When she's left alone, she is not being abandoned. I will come back. 2. Throwing a tantrum won't get the results that you want. The problem is stopping the screaming before it escalates to screaming. Haven't quite nailed that one yet. So...another day. Focus on the positive. Hope we get somewhere. Don't worry about what happened yesterday. Or what might happen later today. Positive thinking. Positive energy. Anyway...the dog's had her workout. Time for the owner to get hers. --- In [email protected], "dasha" <dasha48@...> wrote: > > Personally I think you are trying too hard to be the pack leader. There is > more to training a dog than this. If you have access to a good positive > based trainer that would help. The words "pack leader" are way overused and > taken wrong for the most part'. However, considering the way you feel why > don't you contact one of your local rescues and see if they can re home her > for you? The dog needs way more than you can give her at this point. > > It is not a magical thing to be a "pack leader" and this won't solve > problems that are probably in this dog's past. And calm submissive is not > all it is cracked up to be. Forcing her is apparently not working. FYI try > another book besides Caesar and at this point I am not sure why you are > still reading and following his book. Personally I hate the way he uses the > words pack leader and there are known cases where it has done more harm than > good. The exercise I agree with but the rigid discipline apparently does not > agree with this dog. She is trying to tell you in her own way that what you > are doing is not working. Try Victoria Stilwells' It's me of the dog, there > are several other options also. No matter what you see on TV or read the > so-called miracles of Milan, it is a long process, it won't happen > overnight. > > I also don't see much in your post about loving on and petting this dog. > Maybe she just needs some "loving attention?" > > Letting her go would not be giving up, it would be doing something that is > better for the dog. > > Sheila > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of freddyscribbles > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 3:40 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Chihuahuas] SOS! Re-homing Pia Late May - early June - sooner if > something can be arranged > > Okay folks - this is an SOS. > > I had the best intentions. I still do. But I do not think I will be able to > maintain 'calm assertive pack leader' much longer. It cannot be a good thing > when, in the back of your mind, you kind of quietly wish you could let her > 'escape' for the coyotes - at least than I could get some sleep - it's like > mothers with those super crying babies... Before I start getting hate mail - > I would never do this. Nor would I ever return her to the shelter. But this > is not a mental state conducive to bringing around a neurotic dog. This dog > deserves better than what I am able to provide. Or maybe I am what she > needs. But I do not feel in the least bit bonded to this little girl. At > all. I feel responsible. And exasperated. Which in some ways is good because > it means I take her rehabilitation seriously. > > Bottom line - > > This just isn't working out between us. There is what you'd call a huge > compatibility issue. > > I have found a dog that is way too high energy for what I am currently able > to accommodate. With quite a few more psychological/behavioral issues than I > am prepared to address or experienced enough to correct. > > Every day is a constant battle of wills. I'm a stubborn bugger. So is she. > My house. My rules. But it's a constant 'Shut up shut up shut up!' Scream > your heart out. You will not get your way. Again - before someone tells me > this is cruel...I do NOT cater to bad behavior. I have worked to correct it. > I have gone in, back to her, calm, assertive, and backed her into bed. And > left. That usually puts her into an easy state of mind. At least for a > little while. Than...the howling. > > This increasing tension can't be healthy for either of us. Could I turn her > into a calm submissive ideal pet? Probably. I absolutely believe that she > will be easy to rehabilitate and turn into an ideal canine citizen. I just > don't have the experience to do this. And this calm, assertive pack leader > is increasingly fed up with the howling. And screaming. And whining. And > scratching at the back of the door. Could I give in and save myself a few > headaches? Yes. Absolutely. Am I going to? No. > > I am pack leader. > > These are my rules - at night, you sleep in the bathroom. When I am working, > you are in the hallway because it is the same as if I were not home. When I > am 'home', you can be over by the door in my line of sight. Howling is not > answered. Period. I will NOT reinforce bad behavior. Even at the expense of > pulling out the last bloody hair on my head. > > I am trying. I am trying really, really bloody hard. But as I write this, > she's been put away for the evening (I'll get to that routine shortly) and > she's screaming bloody murder and it does my head in. Maybe the evening > Pet-ease will kick in soon. Wishful thinking? > > Tonight I had to go out. This was one of our better moments. I had several > meetings and I was gone for eight hours. I took her for a walk before hand - > 20 minutes to get rid of some of the excess energy. We did some very basic > reward based training when she came back. I gave her a toy. She settled > down. Then there was about 30 seconds of howling. Than she settled down > again and was fine. Granted, I'd dosed her with Pet-Ease prior to our walk. > I did not put her away right before I left. I did this about an hour prior > so that being put in the hallway was not associated with my leaving. I still > walked back and forth. When I did leave, it was without ceremony. No > goodbye. No see you later. That's just stupid. And it would only make things > worse. > > I came home - she starts howling. I don't react. I don't go to see her. I > take care of other things first - turn some lights on, feed the other dog, > let the cat in, put my stuff down, use the loo, put on something > comfortable. When she stops, I go over, make her sit, put on her collar, > grab a flashlight and go for a very brief pack walk - it's dark. I'm in the > mountains. There are animals here that would happily make either of us > dinner, so a long, exhausting walk isn't an option. I'd have gone for a > proper long haul if I thought it was safe. As it is, I am now taking her for > 30-40 minutes in the morning and 30-40 minutes in the evening. 15-20 in the > afternoon. As I said - high energy dog. She desperately needs the exercise. > And I like walking. Hugely adverse to my usual daily routine. But it's good > for her. So I do it. Happily. Especially if it saves my ears some anguish > later. > > We come back inside. I move her to the bathroom. We do some basic reward > training (routine - see?). And I want her to associate the bathroom with > good things and a positive, calm mental state. Also, I can hide her > medication and an evening dose (1/2 tablet) of Pet-Ease in a reward. While > she is calm, I pick her up - still in the bathroom - and give her some > affection. Than she's put on the floor. I wait. so that putting her down > isn't associated with leaving. She grabs a toy. I slip out. Within seconds > she's howling. She's still howling. It's ear piercing, head splitting. > > This is not a good advertisement for this dog. But hey, I'm sure there are > plenty of people out there who would be more than happy to give her exactly > what she wants. I am not one of them. And I'm not entirely convinced that I > can outlast her. Or maybe there's someone more experienced out there who can > do right by her and properly rehabilitate her. > > I just don't have the experience. Nor am I the type of person to give in to > a dog for my own convenience. So...we've reached an impasse. I might be able > to outlast her and get her into the proper, happy dog mental state if I > actually had people to help me. But on my own, she's just way too much for > me. > > I'm going to keep reading Cesar. I'm going to keep working on the dominance > thing. And the separation anxiety thing. > > I think affection right before bed time is a BAD idea. This dog does not do > well with affection. Exercise. Discipline. Yes. Both in quantity. Affection > just seems to exacerbate the situation ten fold. At least affection in the > way that people think of affection - the petting, the lap time. Every time I > spend lap time or petting time I end up with a worse situation than when I > started. If I can actually get her to a stronger, more consistent > calm-submissive state, than I will slowly reintroduce physical affection (of > the human variety). Until then...no go. Every time it I pick her up or pet > her (not a corrective touch), it sets all of my little bits of progress back > three steps. > > She was screaming when I started writing this email. She is still screaming. > It was 11:31pm when I started. It's 12:40 right now. > > While some behaviors are getting better. For instance, she's doing much much > better on a leash. Others are getting worse. Some days she's fine. Some > days...I get this. Long, long, long, bouts of screaming and howling and > crying. This has been the worst to date. > > As I've said - I understand that she's been in an arguably traumatic > situation and she probably didn't come from a great home life to begin with. > I understand that she is young. And I realize that we've been together less > than a week. But this only explains the behavior. It does not make it > acceptable. And I do not think that her behavior will change without a lot > more work. > > This isn't just an adjustment issue. This is a behavioral problem. And with > a dog this unstable, and this high energy human pity would just make things > worse. There is no pity. Do I enjoy hearing her scream? No. I hate that > she's so mentally off. I want her to find balance. We are working on that. > > Please, please help. I am at my wits end. At this point - lots of exercise > and relatively rigid discipline are the only answers I can think of. And > withholding the 'human' means of affection. No petting. NO lap time. We can > do dog things like reward training. We will not do human things like petting > until this howling nonsense is nipped in the bud or she's found a home with > someone who likes having a shadow with four legs. > > I kind of feel like a horrible person for calling it quits. But I do not > have the experience to handle these problems. I am really concerned I may > inadvertently make them worse. I only have enough experience not to give > into them. I just wish I knew better how to correct them. > > -Autumn > > > > ------------------------------------ > > We are now on Facebook! Join today! > > http://www.facebook.com/groups/chihuahuasclubYahoo! Groups Links > ------------------------------------ We are now on Facebook! 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