Your right, because it was by process of elimination with kibbles and treats, that proved Gigi not only would have seizures from a higher protein and fat content, but also from the Rosemary which is in so many of these foods and natural treats. It took days of research and close comparisons to finally find that there are only two brands of a good quality kibble that doesn't have Rosemary in it. I sure hope that they never change the formula too, cause then I won't have a clue as to what to feed her. Then it took almost three months of experimenting with different food and treats and keeping a daily diary of every single thing that I fed her and how she reacted to it that day and the next day. Then when I would see a reaction in her behavior, I would wait 2 weeks and then try the same treat again. If I saw the same reaction, then I knew it was the treat. I did that for every type of treat that I usually buy and when I
compared them all, they all had Rosemary in it, not only that but so did the Wells kibble that she was switched to. That was another ball game.
But all of that research and experimenting paid off, cause now I know with no doubts what she needs and doesn't need. Princess never seemed to have any reaction to anything with Rosemary in it, but I have no idea how long it takes to accumulate in there system before you see a reaction, so I don't give it to her either.
Peggy
-------Original Message-------
Date: 3/28/2012 11:05:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Chihuahuas] Pam blue freedom dogfood new safe for chis
Yes it is always higher $ when it is Vet prescribed. That I don't mind if it works. It has to be low in protein and grain free because unless you put your animal through all the allergy testing, you don't know what exactly they are allergic to. This is an elimination diet to rule out things. They were switched to that a couple of years when nothing else worked..and I have to say no more skin or stomach problems, excessive licking or scratching. The next step would be to try adding other things to their diet but as many stomach problems as Paco has had,,that is a scary scenario. I have been trying to add some Fromm's to Bino's diet and he has been tolerating it pretty well but it is pretty rich. I might try mixing the two for a while and see. Sometimes it is like playing russian roulette.
From: Peggy & The Girls <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Chihuahuas] Pam blue freedom dogfood new safe for chis
It wasn't easy to find the breakdown on the web either. You would think that Royal Canin would list it on there site and they don't.
Well it is Far from being a high protein, especially since the first ingredient and the bulk of the food is potatoes. And it has a high water content like canned food. And very expensive! Another site wanted $9.00 more for the same bag size......the rip off!
The Fromm on the other hand is a very high protein and fat. I originally used a higher protein and fat food on Princess too when I first got her, because she was 8 pounds underweight, which is a lot for a small dog. Then once she was at her normal weight, I switched to a lower protein of 26% and fat 16% and she has been able to maintain her good weight and not over weight, she is all muscle, and no fat.
Royal Canin Veterinary Diet Canine Hypoallergenic Selected Protein Adult PV Dry Dog Food
Itching skin, upset stomachs, and irritated bowels are no match for Royal Canin Veterinary Diet Canine Hypoallergenic Selected Protein Adult PV Dry Dog Food! This healthy food for dogs is prescribed by veterinarians to alleviate symptoms
Dried potato, venison meal, potato protein, coconut oil, natural flavors, vegetable oil, fish oil, salt, DL-methionine, L-lysine, choline chloride, taurine, monosodium phosphate, vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), biotin, D-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin A acetate, niacin supplement, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), riboflavin supplement (vitamin B2), folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], trace minerals (zinc oxide, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), rosemary extract, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols and citric acid.
Moisture (max): 10.00%
Crude Protein (min):19.50%
Crude Fat (min): 10.00%
Crude Fiber (max): 3.80%
EPA (min): 0.1%
DHA (min): 0.05%
I have Gigi on Nutro Chicken & Rice & Oatmeal formula for sensitive stomachs.
Chicken meal, ground rice, rice flour, rice bran, whole brown rice, chicken, poultry fat, oatmeal, pea proteinProtein 21%, Fat 12%, Fiber 5%, (low fiber is suppose to be good for sensitive stomachs and livers)
Her poop is smaller and softer on this one, which the say is better for their system. And she doesn't eat her poop with this one, like she did on other brands. That has also helped her to loose the excess weight.
JMO, but it sounds like Tino could use a good chicken based food with protein 26-27% and fat 16%. He should still be able to burn that off without loosing weight, and not be too rich for his system.
-------Original Message-------
Date: 3/28/2012 8:03:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Chihuahuas] blue freedom dogfood new safe for chis
Paco and Bino are on the Veterinary prescribed Royal Canine hypo-allergenic Venison and Potato because of skin and stomach allergies and I don't have the bag so clueless on the breakdown. But I think remembering in my senior mind that the fat content on the Venison and Potato was very low.. I put Tino on the Fromm grainfree to help build his immune system and bulk him up..but he is at a good weight now so probably will move him to the Royal Canine also.The Fromm seems to be a little rich for his tummy. I will have to monitor his weight tho because he is an energizer bunny and I don't want his weight to go down. The Fromm had 29.9% protein and 18% fat.
Pam, I am curious, just how high is the protein and the fat that you feed your chis?
Peggy
-------Original Message-------
Date: 3/28/2012 7:30:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Chihuahuas] blue freedom dogfood new safe for chis
I have never had a weight problem with any of my animals on high protein. Now the high carbs have been a different story. Only thing I notice on the high protein is their stool is softer..less filler to bind it.
Ahh but there is a difference in the way proteins are absorbed in the body, and that depends on what type of protein source it is. Raw food digest much faster in a dogs systems because it is loaded with enzymes. Raw fed dogs have a much lighter color stool and the stool once passed even disintegrates faster then kibble protein. It takes much longer for an animal or a human to digest and have the proteins broken down from beef then it does from chicken or turkey.
Some types of proteins can actually interfere in the absorption of certain vitamins and minerals and medicines. They each have there own job to do in the digestion and absorption in the body. Kibble dog food is sooo processed that it does take three times longer to digest then raw foods, which is why a dog that has a liver or kidney problem that isn't functioning correctly has a much harder time digesting and distributing proteins throughout the body, because all proteins pass through the liver first. Proteins come from many different types of food, not just meat. Not all proteins are a like! The more active a dog is the quicker the dog digest proteins and burns them up, same thing with people. So for a couch potatoe type dog, it is a fact that too high a protein only makes the liver work twice as hard trying to absorb and distribute them through out the system within a 24 hour period.
Just for the record, I have also learned that for dogs that have seizures, a lower protein diet can also reduce the severity and amount of seizures that a dog can have, whether they have a liver issue or not. I know that this is true of Gigi and many other people who have seizure dogs.
Peggy
-------Original Message-------
Date: 3/28/2012 11:04:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Chihuahuas] blue freedom dogfood new safe for chis
I use Fromm Grain free..Truthfully I don't see any advantage to grains..they just cause allergies. Unless your dog has a medical condition limiting his protein consumption, I don't think there is such a thing as Protein being too high. Some people raw feed(Hi Rebecca lol) and that is mostly protein.
is BLUE Freedom Grain-Free Chicken Recipe safe for small breeds better than the non grain free. I see they have it in the bite size and I like it has no grain this is what they say is in it
wasn't sure if the protein is to high
thanks
Randi
Guaranteed Analysis
| Crude Protein |
26.0% min |
| Crude Fat |
15.0% min |
| Crude Fiber |
7.0% max |
| Moisture |
10.0% max |
| Calcium |
1.2% min |
| Phosphorous |
0.9% min |
| Omega 3 Fatty Acids* |
0.25% min |
| Omega 6 Fatty Acids* |
2.5% min |
| L-Carnitine* |
100 mg/kg min |
| Glucosamine* |
400 mg/kg min |
| Chondroitin Sulfate* |
300 mg/kg min |
|
|
|
|
