On Аўт, 23 вер 2025, Kristian Smith wrote:
> Hi Alexander,
> 
> I have word back from the engineering team on your question. 
> 
> Since the netlogon and KDC binaries are hosted on the same machine for
> Windows Domain Controllers, the process described is done by the two
> binaries communicating with each other directly within LSASS. It is
> not via a network call to the KDC like TGS or ticket renewals.
> 
> Apologies for the delayed response, but I hope this helps. Let me know
> if you have any follow up questions or concerns.

Thank you. I'd like you to clarify the specification to include this
detail.

> 
> Regards,
> Kristian Smith
> Support Escalation Engineer | MicrosoftR Corporation
> Email: [email protected]
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alexander Bokovoy <[email protected]> 
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2025 12:14 AM
> To: Kristian Smith <[email protected]>
> Cc: [email protected]; Microsoft Support 
> <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Network Ticket Logon clarification - 
> TrackingID#2508140040006509
> 
> Hi Kristian,
> 
> On ���, 12 ��� 2025, Kristian Smith wrote:
> > Hi Alexander,
> > 
> > Apologies for the delay in response. Jeff retired last week and I'll 
> > be taking over this case on his behalf.
> 
> Happy retirement to Jeff!
> 
> > 
> > I see that you're referencing the 5 steps outlined in [MS-NRPC]
> > 3.2.4.2 Network Ticket Logon. You're wondering about the intermediary 
> > steps between the following:
> > 
> > 2. Netlogon delivers the request (see section 
> > 3.2.4.2.1<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A
> > %2F%2Flearn.microsoft.com%2Fen-us%2Fopenspecs%2Fwindows_protocols%2Fms
> > -nrpc%2F1ff6ce53-dc55-4a9e-af21-cb8ea5de5948&data=05%7C02%7Ckristian.s
> > mith%40microsoft.com%7C7e8a1dfecde340595cdc08ddf4278259%7C72f988bf86f1
> > 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638935172742366850%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZs
> > b3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIj
> > oiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=tFD6f9LrKw9yuBuurJb4CJ5T
> > qRmt1pbedKD1E6UIffQ%3D&reserved=0>)
> > 3. The Key Distribution Center 
> > (KDC)<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%
> > 2Flearn.microsoft.com%2Fen-us%2Fopenspecs%2Fwindows_protocols%2Fms-nrp
> > c%2Fb5e7d25a-40b2-41c8-9611-98f53358af66%23gt_6e5aafba-6b66-4fdd-872e-
> > 844f142af287&data=05%7C02%7Ckristian.smith%40microsoft.com%7C7e8a1dfec
> > de340595cdc08ddf4278259%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C6
> > 38935172742382924%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYi
> > OiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7
> > C%7C%7C&sdata=WRe31YWGuS61fgAoX%2FZ4Pj8CqYgoe7KKOjBum65Sczo%3D&reserve
> > d=0> processes the request and sends a reply (see 
> > [MS-KILE]<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A
> > %2F%2Flearn.microsoft.com%2Fen-us%2Fopenspecs%2Fwindows_protocols%2Fms
> > -kile%2F2a32282e-dd48-4ad9-a542-609804b02cc9&data=05%7C02%7Ckristian.s
> > mith%40microsoft.com%7C7e8a1dfecde340595cdc08ddf4278259%7C72f988bf86f1
> > 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638935172742394410%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZs
> > b3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIj
> > oiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0jnOCUR%2FkECLpQ10ju%2BY
> > mx49GXxu43LisHnPTAGIOq8%3D&reserved=0> section 
> > 3.3.5.8.1<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A
> > %2F%2Flearn.microsoft.com%2Fen-us%2Fopenspecs%2Fwindows_protocols%2Fms
> > -kile%2F5445bcc9-1232-42d3-9f66-99f40463a92c&data=05%7C02%7Ckristian.s
> > mith%40microsoft.com%7C7e8a1dfecde340595cdc08ddf4278259%7C72f988bf86f1
> > 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638935172742405346%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZs
> > b3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIj
> > oiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=5IHVAj4LPgpnwAY%2BooAXwI
> > bnxHnWttATxC1vrw5tGno%3D&reserved=0>)
> > 
> > [MS-NRPC] 3.2.4.2.1 discusses what I interpret as 2 stages, dispatch 
> > to the appropriate DC, and the domain calling the KDC.
> > 
> > Is your question specifically about the call to the KDC after the 
> > Netlogon request has reached the appropriate DC?
> 
> Correct. There is no description of how Netlogon is supposed to request the 
> check from KDC and how KDC should respond. I'd like to see that documented 
> because there is no existing Kerberos protocol message exchange for this 
> operation and none of the custom changes are documented anywhere.
> 
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Kristian Smith
> > Support Escalation Engineer | Microsoft(r) Corporation
> > Email: 
> > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> > 
> > From: Jeff McCashland (He/him) <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2025 3:37 PM
> > To: Alexander Bokovoy (Samba) <[email protected]>
> > Cc: [email protected]; Microsoft Support 
> > <[email protected]>
> > Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Network Ticket Logon clarification - 
> > TrackingID#2508140040006509
> > 
> > [Kristian to BCC]
> > 
> > Hi Alexander,
> > 
> > I will research the logon interaction and see what I can find.
> > 
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > Jeff McCashland (He/him) | Senior Escalation Engineer | Microsoft 
> > Corporation
> > 
> > Phone: +1 (425) 703-8300 x38300 | Hours: 9am-5pm | Time zone: 
> > (UTC-08:00) Pacific Time (US and Canada)
> > 
> > Local country phone number found here: 
> > https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsuppo
> > rt.microsoft.com%2Fglobalenglish&data=05%7C02%7Ckristian.smith%40micro
> > soft.com%7C7e8a1dfecde340595cdc08ddf4278259%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7c
> > d011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638935172742415347%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0
> > eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIl
> > dUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=4Gi%2BixHH7De49Hi%2F03sd4FUmUk7urjDG
> > 6UaTZtOGTZ0%3D&reserved=0 | Extension 1138300
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ________________________________
> > From: Kristian Smith 
> > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2025 8:39 AM
> > To: Alexander Bokovoy (Samba) <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> > Cc: 
> > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> 
> > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; 
> > Microsoft Support 
> > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Network Ticket Logon clarification - 
> > TrackingID#2508140040006509
> > 
> > [DocHelp to Bcc]
> > 
> > Hi Alexander,
> > 
> > Thanks for reaching out with your Kerberos/Netlogon question. I've created 
> > case 2508140040006509 to track the issue. One of our engineers will 
> > investigate this and contact you soon.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Kristian Smith
> > Support Escalation Engineer | Microsoft(r) Corporation
> > Email: 
> > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Alexander Bokovoy <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2025 5:41 AM
> > To: Interoperability Documentation Help 
> > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> > Cc: 
> > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Network Ticket Logon clarification
> > 
> > Hello Dochelp,
> > 
> > I am reading through MS-KILE v45 update that was published this week
> > (v20250811) and trying to understand how would KDC receive the request 
> > which processing is described in the section [MS-KILE] 3.3.5.8 Network 
> > Ticket Logon.
> > 
> > As referenced in [MS-KILE] 3.3.5.8, [MS-NRPC] 3.2.4.2 describes the process 
> > on the Netlogon side, namely:
> > 
> > --------------------------------------
> > Broadly, there are five major steps in the network ticket logon process:
> > 
> >   - The Kerberos client prepares and makes a request (see [MS-APDS] 
> > sections 3.2.5.1 and 3.2.5.2)
> > 
> >   - Netlogon delivers the request (see section 3.2.4.2.1)
> > 
> >   - The Key Distribution Center (KDC) processes the request and sends 
> > a reply (see [MS-KILE] section 3.3.5.8.1)
> > 
> >   - Netlogon processes the reply and sends it to the client (see 
> > section 3.2.4.2.2)
> > 
> >   - The Kerberos client receives the reply (see [MS-APDS] section 
> > 3.2.5.4)
> > -------------------------------------
> > 
> > My question is related to the steps 'Netlogon delivers the request' 
> > and 'KDC processes the requests and sends a reply'. Unfortunately, 
> > neither [MS-NRPC]
> > 3.2.4.2.1 nor [MS-KILE] 3.3.5.8.1 clarify how exactly Netlogon and KDC 
> > communicate the request between each other.
> > 
> > Could you please clarify it?
> > 
> > Is it a specially formatted TGS-REQ? Or is it some special form of a 
> > back-channel between these components?
> > 
> > --
> > / Alexander Bokovoy
> 
> 
> --
> / Alexander Bokovoy

-- 
/ Alexander Bokovoy

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