From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no
To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no
Subject: Cinelerra digest, Vol 1 #1846 - 11 msgs
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 04:48:51 +0200
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: WHERE CINELERRA IS GOING? ...anyone? (Timothy Baldridge)
2. Re: WHERE CINELERRA IS GOING? ...anyone? (Edouard Chalaron)
3. idea for irc logging tweak (David McNab)
4. Re: WHERE CINELERRA IS GOING? ...anyone? (Herman Robak)
5. Re: WHERE CINELERRA IS GOING? ...anyone? (Christian Thaeter)
6. Re: #cinelerra irc channel usage (Kevin Brosius)
7. Re: WHERE CINELERRA IS GOING? ...anyone? (Fred Williams)
8. setting for encoders (Edouard Chalaron)
9. Re: WHERE CINELERRA IS GOING? ...anyone? (David Kletzli)
10. Re: Cinelerra productions (IL'dar AKHmetgaleev)
11. Re: WHERE CINELERRA IS GOING? ...anyone? (Christian Thaeter)
--__--__--
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:24:35 -0500
From: "Timothy Baldridge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no
Subject: Re: [CinCVS] WHERE CINELERRA IS GOING? ...anyone?
Reply-To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no
Well said, I feel the same about Cinelerra.
If nothing else, replace those horrible effects icons with something
that at least tries to look professional.
Timothy
--
"Believing in a DRM business model is like joining Star Fleet
security, putting on your red shirt, and volunteering to beam down to
the new unexplored plant with Kirk, Spock and McCoy." -- Jeremy
Allison
--__--__--
Message: 2
Subject: Re: [CinCVS] WHERE CINELERRA IS GOING? ...anyone?
From: Edouard Chalaron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:32:01 +1200
Reply-To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no
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Well I am sorry, but the way icons look is of the last relevance
I don't work better because icons look better. They could look better
but I could not care less either.
Moreover they probably are gif files in a corner of the source
directories ...
If conversely someone could write something "in depth" about keyframing
that would be great.
Thanks
E
On Tue, 2007-08-14 at 15:24 -0500, Timothy Baldridge wrote:
> Well said, I feel the same about Cinelerra.
>
> If nothing else, replace those horrible effects icons with something
> that at least tries to look professional.
>
> Timothy
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<BR>
Well I am sorry, but the way icons look is of the last relevance <BR>
<BR>
I don't work better because icons look better. They could look better but I
could not care less either.<BR>
Moreover they probably are gif files in a corner of the source directories
...<BR>
<BR>
If conversely someone could write something "in depth" about
keyframing that would be great.<BR>
Thanks<BR>
E<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 2007-08-14 at 15:24 -0500, Timothy Baldridge wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<PRE>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Well said, I feel the same about Cinelerra.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">If nothing else, replace those horrible effects icons
with something</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">that at least tries to look professional.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Timothy</FONT>
</PRE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
</BODY>
</HTML>
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--__--__--
Message: 3
From: David McNab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:01:25 +1200
Subject: [CinCVS] idea for irc logging tweak
Reply-To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no
Hi,
I'm wondering if the IRC logging could benefit from auto-segmenting, to
make it easier to search.
How it could work is that a new file gets started if one of the
following occurs:
- file size grows over (say) 4k, AND more than 10 minutes elapses
without a post (apart from join/leave/away/nick messages)
- file size grows over 8k
This way, the irc log would be broken up into more easily searchable
fragments.
Thoughts?
David
--__--__--
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 00:21:51 +0200
To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no
Subject: Re: [CinCVS] WHERE CINELERRA IS GOING? ...anyone?
From: "Herman Robak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no
On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 23:32:01 +0200, Edouard Chalaron
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Well I am sorry, but the way icons look is of the last relevance
>
> I don't work better because icons look better. They could look better
> but I could not care less either.
Same here. But people _will_ complain about the things they see,
perceive or understand. So we will keep hearing complaints about
the colours and the icons until they become more in style with the
flavour of the month.
The developers don't feel strongly motivated by that, though.
I am not shaming the developers for not caring about the end
users' complaints. Nor am I shaming end users for complaining
about things that the developers never will consider urgent.
I am just pointing it out. If you want to vent here anyway,
I don't mind. :-)
In light of this, I think Christian Thäter's protocols for
work on Cin3 are clever. You have to hang around on IRC and
poke around with the git repositories, regularily. If you
don't, you are out of the loop.
People who are "talkers" and not "doers" will have to spend
a lot of energy just to stay in the loop. They will either
get a more intimate insight into which ways things are going,
and why, or they will get fed up and leave.
It makes trolling much more expensive, and it makes the
"doers" stand more clearly out.
These are interesting times :-)
--
Herman Robak
--__--__--
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 00:28:58 +0200
From: Christian Thaeter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no
Subject: Re: [CinCVS] WHERE CINELERRA IS GOING? ...anyone?
Reply-To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no
marquitux caballero wrote:
> in the comunity very cool people tried to explain me thos things, but
> they seems to be very focused in specific issues, and those BASIC
> things, are not important in this part of the coding process, and they
> told me those things are BUGs... really? bugs? or bad plannig, or even
> no global vision?
Few people from IRC gathered together to plan a rewrite/redesign of what
ought to become 'Cinelerra 3'.
Please take a look at:
http://www.pipapo.org/pipawiki/Cinelerra3/DesignProcess/Manifest
http://www.pipapo.org/pipawiki/Cinelerra3
So far we have very cool ideas about a new design which allows a lot of
things which are currently not possible, some coding has started but
this is rather in a experimental, preparation phase.
The downside is that we massively lack developers, unfortunally many
previous contributors fallen away because they finished university, got
new jobs or whatever. We aim to make cinelerra3 a open project where
anyone can join and help as much as possible! If you are coder and
interested, just join us.
I've send a http://www.pipapo.org/pipawiki/Cinelerra3/Announcement about
this 'cinelerra 3' project to all developers, so far the responses where
very sparse but postive.
A note to all 'users' reading this: Please refrain from sending feature
request and ideas to us, its way to early and only costs our time to
explain that we consider this things later. Ichthyo and me decided to
design cin3 from ground up. Interested people should start by checking
out the git repositories and review what is there. If you know how to do
things better ask the responsive author of the current thing on IRC or
via mail and do a discussion with the involved people about it. Speaking
for me, I would like to see improvements and new ideas, but I don't want
to become overthrown by people just dropping ideas and then disappear.
Further note about HV's involvement: I informed him at first about this
ideas, but his responses are sparse as usual. It is clear that this may
only become Cinelerra 3 if he acknowledge on this project at some time
and he is invited to join and contribute whenever and as much he wants
to do (we aim to reuse code and ideas from cin2 anyways). Cinelerra is a
heroinewarrior project, Cinelerra CV is a (friendly) fork of it, we
don't want to take over the project, our goal is just to make the best
free Linux Video editor in existence :).
Christian
--__--__--
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:49:23 -0400
From: Kevin Brosius <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [CinCVS] #cinelerra irc channel usage
To: Cinelerra <cinelerra@skolelinux.no>
Reply-To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no
Scott wrote:
> On Mon, 2007-08-13 at 14:17 +0200, Christian Thaeter wrote:
> > I never felt comfortable with the public logging. IRC is meant to be a
> > volatile place where humans meet and talk, this is also a social part
of
> > the community, you wouldn't like either if your pub-talks are logged,
Maybe some irc, but this is a freenode channel associated with a
development project, not a pub.
> > even if you meet with programmer buddies at the pub! IMO there is no
> > much benefit of (public) logging an irc channel its rather even
> > contraproductive for serveral reasons:
> > * Things will be on google for eternity, one has to fear that things
he
> > saied could be misinterpreted out of context.
Haha, I suspect you and I will never agree on this, but...
* Google doesn't store 'things'
* This is a good time to learn to apologize if you act like an idiot
at some point. We are all human, after all. Having the full content of
any such discussions allows all to review any questionable discussion.
People can judge for themselves what was said, rather then having to
rely on someones private logs.
* I find it humorous that some people think there is privacy online.
I humbly suggest you will find your online experience much easier if you
assume anything you do online (irc, email, web site) in cleartext is
public.
> > * The signal to noise ratio is very high, you have to read pages of
logs
> > to gather little usable information.
> > * in an chat are many errors, assumptions, half baked ideas, rumors.
> > * People who know that this is logged are less motivated to write
> > conclusions down to some formal/official document.
> >
> I am one of those odd people who actually read and occasionally glean
> some knowledge from the IRC logs, so please don't take away IRC logging.
> scott
Several people like the idea of logging. Until those against it vote
more strongly, I think it should stay also.
In larger channels I am involved with, you can assume that several
regulars log the channel all the time. I personally see the #cinelerra
logger as a way to simplify everyones life who might like a log, but not
be able to/or want to run a client full time.
--
Kevin
--__--__--
Message: 7
Subject: Re: [CinCVS] WHERE CINELERRA IS GOING? ...anyone?
From: Fred Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no
Organization: self
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:56:27 -0400
Reply-To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no
On Wed, 2007-15-08 at 00:21 +0200, Herman Robak wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 23:32:01 +0200, Edouard Chalaron
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > Well I am sorry, but the way icons look is of the last relevance
> >
> > I don't work better because icons look better. They could look better
> > but I could not care less either.
>
> Same here. But people _will_ complain about the things they see,
> perceive or understand. So we will keep hearing complaints about
> the colours and the icons until they become more in style with the
> flavour of the month.
Well, I don't write here often, but it doesn't bode well for the future
of the product if developers don't care about things that the end users
want to see. It makes me nervous about what might become of Cinelerra.
Keep the good stuff, please, because I like the thing. If there's
streamlining that can be done, great, but the interface, icons
notwithstanding, has been good. I like working with it, what little
I've done, and I don't want to have to stop and learn a new system. For
goodness sakes remember to document too.
--
Warmest Regards,
Fred Williams
--__--__--
Message: 8
From: Edouard Chalaron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 12:35:23 +1200
Subject: [CinCVS] setting for encoders
Reply-To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no
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Hi all
I'd like to modify a couple of parameters in the x264 encoding facility.
Is there a x264.rc or equivalent anywhere ?
Same for mpeg encoding in 422, I'd like to turn the high quantization
on.
Thanks and Regards
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<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; CHARSET=UTF-8">
<META NAME="GENERATOR" CONTENT="GtkHTML/3.14.1">
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Hi all<BR>
I'd like to modify a couple of parameters in the x264 encoding
facility. Is there a x264.rc or equivalent anywhere ?<BR>
Same for mpeg encoding in 422, I'd like to turn the high quantization
on.<BR>
Thanks and Regards
</BODY>
</HTML>
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--__--__--
Message: 9
From: David Kletzli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no
Subject: Re: [CinCVS] WHERE CINELERRA IS GOING? ...anyone?
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 22:19:11 -0400
Reply-To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no
I really have to learn how to use a wiki...
On the site, I noticed you want to keep as much as you can to C coding.
That
said, has anyone considered using Qt for a GUI front-end (or at least the
qmake mechanism)?
It might make it easier to build Cinelerra for multiple platforms and
expand
the user base.
Just a thought...
Dave
On Tuesday 14 August 2007 18:28, Christian Thaeter wrote:
> marquitux caballero wrote:
> > in the comunity very cool people tried to explain me thos things, but
> > they seems to be very focused in specific issues, and those BASIC
> > things, are not important in this part of the coding process, and
they
> > told me those things are BUGs... really? bugs? or bad plannig, or even
> > no global vision?
>
> Few people from IRC gathered together to plan a rewrite/redesign of what
> ought to become 'Cinelerra 3'.
>
> Please take a look at:
> http://www.pipapo.org/pipawiki/Cinelerra3/DesignProcess/Manifest
> http://www.pipapo.org/pipawiki/Cinelerra3
>
> So far we have very cool ideas about a new design which allows a lot of
> things which are currently not possible, some coding has started but
> this is rather in a experimental, preparation phase.
>
> The downside is that we massively lack developers, unfortunally many
> previous contributors fallen away because they finished university, got
> new jobs or whatever. We aim to make cinelerra3 a open project where
> anyone can join and help as much as possible! If you are coder and
> interested, just join us.
>
> I've send a http://www.pipapo.org/pipawiki/Cinelerra3/Announcement about
> this 'cinelerra 3' project to all developers, so far the responses where
> very sparse but postive.
>
> A note to all 'users' reading this: Please refrain from sending feature
> request and ideas to us, its way to early and only costs our time to
> explain that we consider this things later. Ichthyo and me decided to
> design cin3 from ground up. Interested people should start by checking
> out the git repositories and review what is there. If you know how to do
> things better ask the responsive author of the current thing on IRC or
> via mail and do a discussion with the involved people about it. Speaking
> for me, I would like to see improvements and new ideas, but I don't want
> to become overthrown by people just dropping ideas and then disappear.
>
> Further note about HV's involvement: I informed him at first about this
> ideas, but his responses are sparse as usual. It is clear that this may
> only become Cinelerra 3 if he acknowledge on this project at some time
> and he is invited to join and contribute whenever and as much he wants
> to do (we aim to reuse code and ideas from cin2 anyways). Cinelerra is a
> heroinewarrior project, Cinelerra CV is a (friendly) fork of it, we
> don't want to take over the project, our goal is just to make the best
> free Linux Video editor in existence :).
>
> Christian
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cinelerra mailing list
> Cinelerra@skolelinux.no
> https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
--__--__--
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:27:06 +0800
From: IL'dar AKHmetgaleev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no
Subject: Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra productions
Organization: home
Reply-To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no
Hello again.
I have just finished uploading of my movie "Mansour" to archive.org.
Now you can watch it in full resolution with English subtitles.
http://www.archive.org/details/Mansour._A_Lyrical_Portrait_of_an_Artist
Click FTP or HTTP right of "All files" to get subtitles.
--=20
=D0=A1=D1=80=D0=B4 =D0=90=D0=B2=D0=B3 15 10:23:10 KRAST 2007
Wed Aug 15 02:23:10 UTC 2007
----------------------------------
Visit my home page http://www.akhil.nm.ru
(Last update at 11th Aug 14:34)
----------------------------------
jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 192572572
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=D1=8F=D0=BC =D0=B1=D1=8B=D1=82=D1=8C =D1=82=D0=B2=D0=BE=D0=B5=D0=B9
=D1=8D=
=D0=BD=D0=B5=D1=80=D0=B3=D0=B8=D0=B5=D0=B9 =D0=BD=D0=B0 =D0=BF=D1=83=D1=82=
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=D1=81=D1=82=D1=8C.
=D0=90=D1=85=D0=BC=D0=B5=D1=82=D0=B3=D0=B0=D0=BB=D0=B5=D0=B5=D0=B2 =D0=98=
=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=B4=D0=B0=D1=80 aka AkhIL
----------------------------------
Uname: Linux artstation 2.6.21-gentoo-r4 #5 PREEMPT Fri Jul 27 16:52:32
KRAST 2007 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2500+ AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux Uptime:
10:23:11 up 11 days, 14:54, 17 users, load average: 0.34, 0.36, 0.33
--__--__--
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 04:46:04 +0200
From: Christian Thaeter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no
Subject: Re: [CinCVS] WHERE CINELERRA IS GOING? ...anyone?
Reply-To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no
David Kletzli wrote:
> I really have to learn how to use a wiki...
>
> On the site, I noticed you want to keep as much as you can to C coding.
That
> said, has anyone considered using Qt for a GUI front-end (or at least
the
> qmake mechanism)?
First is was just up to reply following text to Fred Williams:
"""
Just before someone complains that I told we don't take user requests
for cinelerra3 some explanation:
* we currently work under the hood, how the render pipeline is
constucted, how files are accessed and cached, how plugins are loaded
into the core, how to interface different programming languages and so on.
* A new GUI is far out of topic yet (and for long time comeing) and we
don't want to be disturbed by Qt vs. Gtk flamewars.
* When we start a new GUI (in 1-2 years?) first and foremost it should
be functionally as identical as possible to the existing GUI.
* After that we need to add some sane way to support the new features
which will be there by then (more modifications on the render pipe etc)
* Finally completely new features may be added, maybe users have ideas
we don't know about, lets see. I opt for a 'add only, dont alter/remove'
functionality (with *very* careful exceptions)
* as ongoing effort we would consider how to improve existing usability
in a convinient way, where user feedback and testing would be welcome.
"""
> It might make it easier to build Cinelerra for multiple platforms and
expand
> the user base.
Multiplatform is far more than a build system and gui toolkit decision.
Cinelerra is free software and we target Linux, at a lesser degree we
might target other unix'ish platforms (thats not too complicated Edward
Sutton already maintains a FreeBSD port). But considering our very low
developer resources, the non-freeness of some other OSes, a broad
competition of other products on mainstream desktop OSes, the uglyness
of Win32 API's (and aqua likely too?) and many many other things. I'd
just say no thanks I don't care for such portability. The price is just
to high. That saied, if someone else wants to maintain ports to non
free/nonunix OSes, go ahead, his contributions will be welcome.
About build system: we currently trying to use some in parallel (namely
scons and automake, someone wants to provide help with cmake?), as long
we are testing and playing and the project is quite small this gives a
good prooving ground for later decisions which we want to keep. Actually
i am a bit pissed about any system and written
http://www.pipapo.org/pipawiki/BuildingSoftware , even started to play a
bit with the idea, but put that on ice, as long no one will help with
such a project, its just to time consuming for me.
Christian
--__--__--
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End of Cinelerra Digest
