On 28/02/2014 18:49, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:

Also I would say there is a fundamental lack of focus from operational
people when it comes to progress in making the standards better and more
efficient.

Ops people are like any other recipient of developemnt, if you ask them,
most of them just want the same, but more and cheaper. Doing leaps in
efficiency isn't something they do, because that's not what they focus
on, they focus on stability.

My view is that the real problem is treating ops and development as two different things done by two separate groups of people - a pervasive attitude in the IT industry as a whole, that leads to un-operable crap being thrown over the wall from development, while at the same time development has no idea what ops needs.

I think that siloing two groups of people with similar skillsets off from each other, making their communications go via some insipid bureaucratic process (ITIL! PRINCE2! Blah blah blah...), and then being surprised when each group doesn't understand the others needs is, frankly, idiotic.

Ops and developement are the same thing, in my view. Ops must, surely, have a list of things they want to automate and/or architect out of existence, and you can't do truly useful development work without a visceral understanding of the operational needs of the network.

That also happens to be a fundamentally more humanising and enjoyable way of working, in my experience.
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