Indian as in Native American? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Letterman" To: Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 3:26 PM Subject: RE: Technology, Certification, Skill Sets, and Loo [7:70915]
> Good question.. > A friend of mine has two kids, one girl and one boy..the daughter has > incentive to excel(fashion design), > The teenage son does not, he prefers to hangout with the guys and do > whatever..I agree with NRF > In that the genx kids, or most of them, don't look at working a real job > as we call it, the way to go.. > When people like J-Lo, sports stars and talent show winners can be > millionaires over night why > Work for a few dollars..its all money and how fast you can make it.. > > As far as girls go, my team at cisco has 8 people...8 engineers all > men..1 project assistant - woman > And in and around me at cisco, most of the women in the technical jobs > are either indian or asian..most of > The american women here where I work are either in project management or > lesser skilled areas...so if they are > Doing better in school, then it does not show up in the workplace in > silicon Valley...where supposedly the > Best and brightest are..( or so everyone likes to think)... > > > Larry Letterman > Cisco Systems > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > annlee > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 8:40 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Technology, Certification, Skill Sets, and Loo [7:70915] > > > I have to ask, as a girl who refused to be relegated (and paid for it, > socially, in the Baby Boom adolescence): is the change in school > dominance from boys to girls because: > -- girls have gotten so much better? > -- because boys have gotten so much worse? > -- some of both (and, if so, in what proportions)? > > The answer matters, because it tells us: > -- we will progress more (because we now have a greater pool of human > talent upon which to draw) > -- we will struggle to progress at the same rate (female success > dominating may have appeared first in sub-societies, like American black > culture, where young successful black women lament they can't find any > equals with whom to partner who are of their general sub-society), since > females continue to carry the larger portion of child-rearing, as well > as all the child-bearing > -- we may even do worse, depending on where that ratio falls. > > > Frankly, I find those numbers appalling. I hate it when the route to one > person's success depends on denying another any chance at it. > > > Annlee > > ""n rf"" wrote in message > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > A lot of them aren't guys. They are women. In a lot of countries > > > (certainly not all but a lot) there's way less prejudice against > > > women being in high-tech. Of more importance, there aren't > > > assumptions made in primary (elementary) and secondary (high school) > > > > that girls are "bad at math." Instead, girls are encouraged, with an > > > > understanding that they tend to be better at many aspects of math. > > > > I was using the term 'guys' in the neuter sense of the word. :-> > > > > > > > > > > Why don't you get involved in your local high school? Encourage more > > > > girls (and boys) to go into computer science. One major aspect of > > > the problem that you describe is that fewer and fewer Amserican > > > students are studying engineering and computer science. > > > > First off, I am heavily involved in my local schools. > > > > Second, I think the real issue is, quite frankly, the lack of > > incentives. When was the last time you saw an engineer or a computer > > guy depicted as "cool" on TV or in the movies? Little boys don't grow > > > up dreaming of becoming engineers, they grow up dreaming up becoming > > the next Eminem or > the > > next Kobe Bryant. Hey, why work hard in school to learn your math and > > > science when if you can shoot hoops really well, you might get a $75 > million > > shoe contract while you're only 18 years old (and just for endorsing > shoes, > > I'm not even talking about getting paid for actually playing > > basketball), just like LeBron James? Same is true for little girls - > > again, what's the point of school when you could become the next > > Britney or the next Christina Aguilera? Put another way, kids make > > the calculation that they could either work hard through high school > > and college and get a steady middle-class income or they could take > > the shot of becoming a multimillionaire while they're still young. Is > > > it surprising that many of them are lured by the siren song of the > > cool glamour and instant riches? > > > > Even those kids who are wiser and more realistically goal-oriented > > still > do > > not choose CS or engineering for eminently defensible reasons. I > > remember back to my graduating college class - how many of the > > hungriest and most dynamic people chose engineering or CS? Not that > > many. The majority > chose > > to enter fields like law, investment banking, sales, stockbroking, > > etc. Let's face it, CS and engineering are hard work. A lot of people > > > think to themselves - why study my butt off to become an engineer when > > > I can make double the salary by working on Wall Street? > > > > What I'm saying is that I can understand why American kids don't like > > CS > or > > engineering. Simply put - it's not "cool" and they think they can get > more > > bang for the buck by going into other fields. I believe that the US > > does not reward its engineers or CS guys sufficiently, relative to the > > > amount > of > > hard work it takes, instead choosing to reward its pop-culture icons > > and > its > > salesmen/bankers/lawyers, and therefore is it any wonder that American > kids > > don't really want to be the former and instead want to be the latter? > > > > > > > > Part of the problem is the prejudice against females. A bigger > > > problem is that our schools suck. The government spends our money > > > attacking other cultures instead of developing our own. > > > > > > I believe that while there may have been prejudice against girls in > > math/science in the past, I don't know if this continues to happen. > > Or if there still is, then girls are successfully defeating it, just > > like Asian-Americans and Jews continue to fight (and fight > > successfully) > endemic > > prejudice within higher-education admissions rounds. This obviously > > does not condone prejudice of any kind (why can't people be judged > > fairly, and whoever wins wins?), but the fact of the matter is that > > when compared at > the > > same age, girls tend to be far more mature than boys, and as a result, > girls > > are beginning to dominate schools academically. Consider this report > > from 60 Minutes: > > > > "...it's the boys who could use a little help in school, where they're > > > falling behind their female counterparts. > > > > And if you think it's just boys from the inner cities, think again. > > It's happening in all segments of society, in all 50 states. That's > > why more > and > > more educators are calling for a new national effort to put boys on an > equal > > footing with their sisters. Lesley Stahl reports. > > > > At graduation ceremonies last June at Hanover High School in > Massachusetts, > > it was the ninth year in a row that a girl was on the podium as school > > > valedictorian. Girls also took home nearly all the honors, including > > the science prize, says principal Peter Badalament. > > > > "[Girls] tend to dominate the landscape academically right now," he > > says, even in math and science. > > > > The school's advanced placement classes, which admit only the most > qualified > > students, are often 70 percent to 80 percent girls. This includes > calculus. > > And in AP biology, there was not a single boy. > > > > According to Badalment, three out of four of the class leadership > positions, > > including the class presidents, are girls. In the National Honor > > Society, almost all of the officers are girls. The yearbook editor is > > a girl. > > > > While there are statistically more boy geniuses than girl geniuses, > > far > more > > boys than girls are found at the very bottom of the academic ranks. > > School districts from Massachusetts to Minnesota to California report > > that boys > are > > withdrawing from the life of schools, and girls are taking over. > > > > "Girls outperform boys in elementary school, middle school, high > > school, > and > > college, and graduate school," says Dr. Michael Thompson, a school > > psychologist who writes about the academic problems of boys in his > > book, "Raising Cain." He says that after decades of special attention, > > > girls are soaring, while boys are stagnating. > > > > ..The picture doesn't get much brighter for young men when they get to > > > college. Campuses are now nearly 60 percent female, with women earning > > > 170,000 more bachelor degrees each year than men. Women are streaming > > into business schools and medical schools, and will be the majority at > > > the nation's law schools. At some colleges, they're getting so many > > more qualified women applicants than men applicants that the schools > > are doing something that might shock you. > > > > "To make a class that's 50/50, they're practicing affirmative action > > on behalf of boys," says Thompson. "Girls are so outperforming boys in > > > school right now, " > > > > http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/31/60minutes/main527678.shtml > > > > > > The same trend seems to exist elsewhere. For example, in Australia: > > > > "At the senior secondary level in Australia, the average girl is > > currently outperforming the average boy..." > > > > > http://education.qld.gov.au/students/advocacy/equity/gender-sch/trouble/ > part-final.html > > > > Canada: > > > > "Boys account for almost two-thirds of elementary-school students > receiving > > special education and are far more prone than girls to behavioural > problems, > > Statistics Canada reported yesterday. > > > > Provincial education ministers recently flagged the underperformance > > of > boys > > as a problem in Canadian schools. This most recent study contributes > > more cause for concern." > > > > http://fact.on.ca/news/news0003/gm000308.htm > > > > The UK: > > > > "It has long been known in academic circles that girls often > > outperform > boys > > at school. In the past, girls always needed a higher mark than boys in > > > the > > 11+ to get into Grammar School and nowadays (according to Geoff Hannan > > > 11+ - > an > > expert in the field) - the average boy is 11 months behind the average > girl > > in oracy, 12 months behind in literacy and 6 months behind in numeracy > when > > they start secondary school. By the KS3 Tests, girls are frequemtly > > over a year ahead in English. Ten per cent more girls consistently > > score the > higher > > GCSE grades (A* to C) than boys..." > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/parents/article_secondary_09092002.shtml > > > > > > "Over the past generation in Britain, the academic performance of > > girls > has > > changed dramatically; from a situation, 25 - 30 years ago, where boys > > outperformed girls in most subjects to one in which girls outperform > > boys > in > > virtually every examined subject at all levels of the education > > system." > > > > http://www.sociology.org.uk/tece1ea2.htm > > > > "This imbalance in achievement, apparent for years at primary-school > > and GCSE level, now seems to have worked its way into higher education > > > as > well. > > The ratio of female students to males in British universities is fast > > approaching three to two." > > > > http://arlindo_correia.tripod.com/061001.html > > > > Hong Kong: > > > > "...Girls in Hong Kong outperform boys in many areas of the curriculum > > > and are already winning a majority of university places." > > > > http://www.icponline.org/world_ed_news/w_ed4_01.htm > > > > The EU: > > > > "Throughout Europe - in primary schools, through secondary education > > and right into the universities - girls are outperforming boys. In the > European > > Union, 20 per cent more women are graduating than men. On leaving > > school > and > > university, women's prospects of employment exceed men's. In Germany, > > for example, between 1991 and 1995 twice as many men as women lost > > their jobs. Women actually gained 210,000 jobs while men lost > > 400,000..." > > > > http://books.guardian.co.uk/firstchapters/story/0,6761,373196,00.html > > > > > > > > The fact that this outperformance has been reported not just in one > country > > but throughout the world leads me to conclude that girls either are > > more mature, harder working, or dare I say it, simply smarter than > > boys (at the same age). Whatever happens to be the case, I say, good > > for them - if > girls > > prove themselves to be more competent, then they deserve to dominate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Priscilla > > > > > > > All you have to > > > > do is go > > > > any American high school and remark on just how lazy and > > > > unmotivated the kids are today. In this new global economy, > > > > service-oriented work is > > > > going to go to wherever the sharpest, cheapest, and > > > > hardest-working > > > > minds of the world happen to be. That's the way free-market > > > > capitalism > > > > works. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=71033&t=70915 -------------------------------------------------- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
