Certs make bad breath a thing of the past... ;-} CCNP, CCDA, MCSE, MCP+I, MCT, CCP, NNCSA See how fresh my breath is? I'm proud of my certs, but I hate typing all of this stuff! I attained these certifications as steps in my path of learning, not as the primary goal. Of course, they didn't hurt the wallet either! Used to be that employers fell for the old "he/she is certified, so that must indicate ability" line, but I think most have wisened up to that by now. Fresh breath helps, but some other quality, such as experience, hard-working, management skills, etc., is needed to really succeed these days. Rik "Scott Baron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Has anyone noticed that people arguing the most that certs dont matter are > the ones that haven't 'bothered' to get them. > > I know that isn't true for everyone... so don't flame me but... see where > generalities get you! How shortsited can you be to simply make a blanket > statement... certs don't prove anything... geez. > > Scott M. Baron > CCNP, CCDP, MCP, CNA > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Macaulay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 9:30 AM > To: The.Rock; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX - Senior Citizen Reply > > > "certs don't prove anything" ??? I'm not sure that I can agree with that > statement. Certs IMHO represent an interest by the individual in the subject > matter, and a determined effort to undertake studies necessary to become > more knowledgeable. > > Certainly, obtaining a cert. does not make one a guru. But it usually > (albeit not all the time) indicates a person who has shown some willingness > to learn. I view the knowledge I gained by studying for my certs as a > foundation to be built upon over the coming years. Perhaps I have only a > passing or introductory knowledge of some subjects at this juncture -- but I > assume -- and I certainly hope that as every year passes, I will build upon > that foundation knowledge and at some point I will undergo a slow, but > steady metamorphosis into a guru of sorts! But at this juncture with my > certs, I would certainly agree that I have just enough knowledge to be > dangerous! <smile> > > I would compare the cert study to obtaining academic and professional > degrees. Certainly upon graduation, grads are not experts in any area, but > they possess the fundamentals upon which to build. A lawyer, for example, > may indeed represent any survivors of a plane crash is his/her back yard on > the day he/she is admitted to the Bar, but law school graduation and passing > a Bar Examination DOES NOT indicate an expertise -- but it does indicate the > individual has the foundational knowledge and the potential to become an > expert at some point in the future. I would submit that the same goes for > physicians, accountants, architects, etc. > > I think that the real problem is how these certs. have been marketed. > Instead of promising IMMEDIATE big bucks, the certs, should be an entry > ticket into this career. Individuals who possess these certs should be > respected for the time, effort and interest they have shown in studying for > and obtaining a cert. But whether they are PAPER CERTS is truly a > mischaracterization. As I put forth above, every academic or professional > degree is indeed initially a paper cert -- but with potential. IT folks who > obtain these certs by and large have the potential to succeed. Just as > there are bright, average and incompetent lawyers, doctors and others, the > same would hold true in our field. Some individuals in inately intuitive, > without certs, and others -- the majority -- will become the average IT > Joe/Jane who work day-to-day in this field. Certainly there will always be > the small numbers who are totally incompetent. But it is not because the > certs are merely paper. > > That's my 2 cents. > > Greg Macaulay, CCNP, CCDP, MCSE > Attorney/Law Professor (Retired) > Lifetime member of AARP > Oldest CCNP/CCDP in existence > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > The.Rock > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 12:33 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Cisco Certs Becoming Paper CCXX - Reply to The Rock > > > oh yeah one more thing...In case you forgot, certs don't prove anything > you really are an idiot if you think they "prove " something). The only > prove your ability to regurgitate info that you supposedly learned. Having > the know how, and knowing how to use are two different things. Lets say your > 8 years old and I give you a bunch of craftsman tools, does that mean you > certainly can't handle responsibility if your a "victim". _________________________________ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
