I do agree with you there. Cisco's restructuring of its partner program will
decrease the demand for CCIE. It probably isn't as easy these days for all
new CCIE's to start with 6 figure salaries.
As far as showing accomplishment and ability, doesn't obtaining the CCIE
certification show exactly that? Being a part of this small elite group is a
major accomplishment, and requires incredible skill to achieve. So doesn't
this certification prove that the person has what it takes?
Fred
>From: "Kevin Wigle"
>To: "Fred Danson" ,
>Subject: Re: Certification Ego! (was Failed CCDA) [7:1929]
>Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:22:45 -0400
>
>However those days are practically gone.
>
>With the recent restructuring of the Channel program which reduces the
>amount of CCIE's by up to 75% for Gold and Silver partners - just being a
>CCIE won't be enough.
>
>Your resume will have to show accomplishment and ability, and be a CCIE.
>
>Kevin Wigle
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Fred Danson"
>To:
>Sent: Wednesday, 25 April, 2001 21:04
>Subject: Re: Certification Ego! (was Failed CCDA) [7:1929]
>
>
> > I do agree with you on many points Jason, but not all networking jobs
>deal
> > with the LAN. Eventually, I do plan to learn about Microsoft. UNIX,
>Ect....
> > But being in my current situation, my best course of action would be to
>work
> > on the CCIE.
> >
> > In my earlier writing I was trying to emphasize the point that there are
> > many paths to take, but there is only one best path. I could choose to
>work
> > on learning the LAN now, but it is my belief that working towards the
>CCIE
> > would benefit me the most in the long run. I definitely do not plan to
>just
> > get the CCIE and then avoid the LAN alltogether. That wouldn't be a very
> > wise move.
> >
> > It's common knowledge that any lab-certified CCIE is pretty much
>guaranteed
> > six figures. In some cases companies recruit CCIE's just to achieve
>silver
> > or gold status with Cisco. Also, many positions within ISP's do not
>require
> > any LAN experience.
> >
> > Fred
> >
> >
> > >From: "Jason J. Roysdon"
> > >Reply-To: "Jason J. Roysdon"
> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Subject: Re: Certification Ego! (was Failed CCDA) [7:1929]
> > >Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 20:27:43 -0400
> > >
> > >I won't argue that it's always wise to follow what other people did,
>but
>I
> > >will make a few points.
> > >
> > >First is that unless you know at least a very good entry-level
>knowledge
>of
> > >networking beyond the Cisco product line, you're not very useful. A
>CCIE
> > >who has never touched NT or Unix, bah, I don't see a huge value.
> > >
> > >I guess it varies on what you're doing and wanting to do, but for me,
>70%
> > >of
> > >my time is spent helping a customer figure out what in the world they
>need
> > >me to do with the routers. I had a customer today that was going to
>deploy
> > >a DHCP server on each subnet because they didn't understand any other
>way
> > >to
> > >do it. If I didn't know NetWare DHCP and NT DHCP servers, I wouldn't
>have
> > >been able to help them today beyond just saying "configure you DHCP
>server
> > >for scopes for those subnets." Yes, I know how to do the "ip
> > >helper-address," but unless they can configure their DHCP servers, that
> > >knowledge doesn't do much. As it is, I spent 15 minutes explaining how
>the
> > >whole thing would work, and then the rest of the day configuring scopes
>and
> > >then finally implementing "ip helper-address" on all the necessary
> > >interfaces.
> > >
> > >So, I do think it's necessary to have a good foundation in various
>areas.
> > >No, you don't need a paper cert to have that experience, but if you're
> > >going
> > >to learn it and can chase down certs, you might as well so that you've
>got
> > >proof to show customers who go bug-eyed at certs.
> > >
> > >It's like that commercial (I think IBM does it), where two consulting
>guys
> > >are telling this high-up exec a huge list of things he should
>implement.
> > >He
> > >listens (clueless, of course), and says, "Great, do it!" to which they
> > >reply
> > >something like, "Oh, we don't do anything, we just give consulting as
>what
> > >you need to do."
> > >
> > >Tomorrow I will be explaining to a customer why they need to not permit
>all
> > >DMZ traffic into their Internal LAN, and what changes they'll have to
>make
> > >on their servers, including, but not limited to, DNS and WINS. I don't
> > >think there is anything in Cisco's line that will test you on those
>topics.
> > >
> > >I know for me, the CCIE is not the "ultimate," but it's pretty damn
>high
>up
> > >there. I have doubts I'll go back and upgrade my MCSE to Win2k if I
>get
>my
> > >CCIE and can avoid it. I guess my point is once you get to a certain
> > >level,
> > >you're less likely to want to go back and do the things that would help
>you
> > >more as they seem of a lesser value or skill set. I do know that I
>won't
> > >be
> > >doing my CNE, but then I doubt those who don't have to deal with Novell
>on
> > >a
> > >daily basis see it as useful these days.
> > >
> > >--
> > >Jason Roysdon, CCNP+Security/CCDP, MCSE, CNA, Network+, A+
> > >List email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Homepage: http://jason.artoo.net/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >""Fred Danson"" wrote in message
> > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > One thing that I ALWAYS notice when asking someone else for advice
>is
> > >that
> > > > they ALWAYS advise me to take the same path that they did. No matter
>how
> > > > dissimilar out situations are, I will always be advised to take the
>same
> > > > route that they took.
> > > >
> > > > For example, when I was finishing up with my CCNP certification, I
>asked
> > >for
> > > > advise from several other people who also were finishing their CCNP
> > > > certifications. A few of the people that I asked were MCSE's and
>they
> > >all
> > > > told me to go for MCSE before CCIE. Their reasoning was that I
>wouldn't
> > >be
> > > > able to understand the WAN unless I had a solid understanding of the
> > >LAN.
> > > > Now I do think that there is some logic to this statement, but I
> > >definitely
> > > > did not think that it made sense to put CCIE on hold for 5-6 months
>just
> > >to
> > > > learn more about Microsoft.
> > > >
> > > > I think their real reasons for giving me such crappy advice is that
> > >they're
> > > > afraid to admit that they made a mistake. If they suddenly realized
>that
> > > > they wasted 7 months learning about Microsoft, would they be willing
>to
> > > > admit this? I really doubt it! They would tell me to do what they
>did
>so
> > > > they can boost their own egos! Or on the other hand, they wouldn't
>tell
> > >me
> > > > not to do what they did because they would hurt theie egos.
> > > >
> > > > So now, instead of blindingly taking someone's advice, I take a
> > >realistic
> > > > look at all of my options. Being only 20 years old, I was advised by
> > >many
> > > > "experienced professionals" to give it a few years before attempting
>the
> > > > CCIE. Does it really take that long to learn all this stuff? I
>really
> > >don't
> > > > think so. There is an abundance of information out there, and all
>you
> > >have
> > > > to do is put in the extra effort to learn it. Heck, I didn't even
>know
> > >what
> > > > a Router was until about 7 months ago, and I already have CCNA,
>CCDA,
> > >CCNP,
> > > > and CCIE written.
> > > >
> > > > My point here is, don't listen to anyone that isn't in the same
> > >situation
> > >as
> > > > you! Take a realistic look at your options and go for it!
> > > >
> > > > Fred Danson
> > > >
> > > > P.S. - I have a problem with the statement "youth is a unique illnes
> > >that
> > > > heals with time only". From what I hear, the older portion of the
>CCIE
> > > > candidates typically struggle with the time constraints on the CCIE
>Lab.
> > >To
> > > > my knowledge, cheese and wine are the things that improve with age.
>They
> > >may
> > > > have the wisdom, but you got the speed. Go for it!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Ruben Arias"
> > > > >Reply-To: "Ruben Arias"
> > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > >Subject: Re: Failed CCDA [7:1865]
> > > > >Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 10:09:11 -0400
> > > > >
> > > > >we're not offended because of your age, we're scared to death...
> > > > >by the way, youth is a unique illnes that heals with time only.
> > > > >Ruben
> > > >
> > >
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