>I disagree. > >Everyone seems to think teaching to the test is a bad thing, but I think >it's a lot more fuzzy than that. > >Here's an example, > >If I ask you what 3x3 equals, you can answer 9 (I hope). How do you know >that? Did you go to college and study math theory for four years? Do you >how many pages it takes to prove that 3x3=9? Do you know the concepts >needed for the proof?
Well, yes, I do. Bear with me. > >I'm assuming that you were learned 3x3 just like I did, with a 3rd grade >teacher going over it and over it and over it. She was in effect, was >teaching to the test. > >Let's jump forward a few years. Lately I've been dealing with >L2TP/IPSEC/VPN. I think I understand the basic concepts these protocols >well, seeing that I use them daily, but in truth do I really? > >If someone asked me to code a tcp/ip stack for vpn, I wouldn't have a clue >where to start. I think it would take me years just to start understanding >the high math needed to code a vpn protocol. There's a big difference among protocol design, protocol coding, network design, and network implementation. You don't need to know the mechanics of label manipulation and recursive tunneling to bring up a decent VPN. While I haven't specifically written TCP/IP VPN code, but I have written X.25 and frame relay code, and am current at the "why" level in IETF VPN specifications. I've very recently done BGP code reviews, including the feasibility of implementing RFC 2547 VPNs with the specific code. First, I wouldn't say a great deal of higher math is involved: basic finite state machines and some techniques of coding and searching. I can teach this stuff, perhaps minus some of the proofs, to a high school student. Let's put it this way...I can and have given enough information to a junior programmer that they can produce the code without being qualified to create the algorithms. > >My point being that I have learned the correct answers on how to use vpn by >being told the correct answers thru self study, reading and experience. My feeling is that if the generic you had a basic knowledge of state machines, a more than Cisco-cursory discussion of OSI and protocol design in general, you could find the correct answers more quickly. > >I have in effect taught myself the correct answers to use when I see the >correct questions. Is there a difference here other than learning that >3x3=9 and passing third grade math test? I'm not sure there is. > >I think anyway you look at it, a pass is pass. If someone can learn to pass >the test, but can't effectively use that knowledge in the real world, maybe >we will find the fault is in the test itself. > > > >""Leigh Anne Chisholm"" wrote in message >[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... >> As one of CertificationZone's study question authors, I'll attest to what >> Mike >> has said - that questions are meant to reinforce key concepts. Yet >another >> exam certification preparation series that follows this same philosophy is >> Sybex's Virtual Test Center line. The CCNA series has been quite >successful >> - >> and shortly Sybex will be going live with their new CCNP Virtual Test >series. >> >> CertificationZone and Sybex are both successful in their product in that >> people use them to enhance their skills, rather than as a simple way of >> getting just enough knowledge to pass the exam--and that in turn makes the >> people who purchase their products more employable because they've got the >> skills and knowledge to get the job done. In the end, generally it's the >> person with the knowledge and skills that's going to get the job--rather >than >> the person with a few letters of the alphabet tacked onto their name. >> >> So no Shawn, not every test preparation company out there ascribes to that >> philosophy - but granted, many do. >> >> >> -- Leigh Anne (CCNP) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of >> Mike Cinquanti >> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 2:47 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Subject: ZONE Tests vs Boson Tests [7:26639] >> >> >> I'm responding to Shawn's "Boson Tests border on Unethical" post >> because CertificationZone.com does market Practice Exams that do help >> prepare users for Cisco's CCNA, CCIE, and CCNP Routing and Switching >> tests but we do not ask our Authors to "get their questions as close >> as possible to the questions on the actual exam". Here's why: >> >> CertificationZone.com publishes Study Guides that address the key >> technical topics our users must master to earn their CCNA, CCNP, and >> CCIE certifications. Each month, we introduce new Study Guides >> written by experts in the topics they address. The purpose of a Study >> Guide is to examine and explain the key technical concepts of the >> featured topic and to provide the reader with tools that can be used >> to assess their comprehension of that topic. >> >> One such assessment tool included in every ZONE Study Guide is a set > > of approximately 25 Study Questions, written by the same expert. >> Along with the correct answer, each Question is accompanied by a >> complete Explanation. Every ZONE Study Question and Explanation is >> first technically reviewed by a qualified networking professional, >> then reviewed for grammar and punctuation, and finally undergoes a >> review for user friendliness. What's the purpose of our user >> friendliness review? We have a very competent MIS professional who >> knows just a little about networking read each question and >> explanation to make sure he can understand what is being asked by the >> question and explained by the explanation. >> >> The vast majority of the over 2,000 questions that feed the ZONE's >> on-line Exam Engine were, therefore, originally written as Study >> Guide Questions. And that's the key difference between the ZONE >> series of Practice Tests for Cisco exams and everyone else's. Instead >> of helping you memorize, ZONE exams force you to think. Our questions >> are harder than those you'll encounter on the real test, but they are >> easier to read and well-explained. We like to tell people who ask >> about ZONE exams that they learn more flunking one of ours than they >> will learn passing five of their's. >> >> Of course, we're not perfect. We make mistakes. And I'm sure we have >> questions in our database that are very similar to those you'll see >> on Boson exams or Cisco's for that matter. But I want to make sure >> the members of this forum understand that I do not agree with Shawn >> Kaminski's statement. CertificationZone.com does do things >> differently than Boson and other Practice Exam providers because we >> are much more than a provider of practice exams. And I also don't >> mean to insinuate that Boson does ask their authors to do anything >> unethical. I only know how the ZONE's Practice Exams are created. >> >> >It's easy to see what's happening here. All of Boson's tests are done by >> >different authors. Each author is going to try like hell to get their >> >questions as close as possible to the questions on the actual exams, if >not >> >right from the exams. Boson doesn't care because they state right in >their >> >author contract that they are not responsible for exams that contain >> >questions that break the NDA. The author will be held responsible. It's >not >> >like Boson's going to double-check every authored exam for NDA >violations. >> >Anyway, the closer the author comes to the actual exam questions, the >more >> >exams he'll sell when word gets around that, for example, "Boson Test #2 >is >> >the one you need to get". However, Boson isn't doing anything different >than >> >any other company selling certification practice exams. It's a >ridiculously >> >huge, cut-throat, and competitive market out there for study materials. >> > >> >Shawn >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: Logan, Harold [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >> >Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 11:28 AM >> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >Subject: RE: Boson Tests border on Unethical [7:26639] >> > >> > >> >I thought about that after I took the exam, but there was something else >I >> >noticed when taking the boson tests. Try taking one of the more popular >CCIE >> >prep books, or maybe even the CCIE Professional Development books, and go >> >through a section. (Not a chapter, but one section of a chapter). Then, >try >> >to think of 5 questions you could ask someone that would test their >> >comprehension of that section. I'm willing to bet that 4 of those 5 >> >questions you thought of will show up, worded slightly differently, on >the >> >boson tests, and 1 or 2 of those 5 questions are in the test bank for the >> >written. >> > >> >Just my .02 >> > >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Gardner, Brent [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >> >> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 11:07 AM >> >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> Subject: Boson Tests border on Unethical [7:26639] >> >> >> >> >> >> I too recently passed my written CCIE. I would go so far to >> >> say that the >> >> Boson tests push the limits in terms of ethical test >> >> preparation. I would >> >> say there were approximately five questions on the practice > > >> exams that were >> >> right out of the Cisco test. Most of these questions were >> >> worded almost >> >> exactly the same as they were in the CCIE written and the >> >> material they >> >> touched on was pretty esoteric. >> >> >> >> Brent Gardner >> -- >> -- >> Mike Cinquanti >> President >> Genium Publishing Corporation >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> 518-842-4111 >> http://www.genium.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=26949&t=26639 -------------------------------------------------- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
