On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, nrf wrote:

>
> I presume that you are speaking of L3 MPLS VPN's.  Actually, Cisco L3 MPLS
> VPN's (RFC 2547) do not behave like Frame-relay or ATM at all.  The key
> difference is that implementing RFC 2547 assumes IP connectivity at the
> customer, whereas FR or ATM makes no such assumption.   It is therefore not
> really true that ATM/FR can be easily swapped out with RFC 2547, because
you
> have to make sure that IP is up and running at the customer.    For a
closer
> adherence to ATM/FR, you should look into L2 MPLS VPN's offered by Juniper
> and other vendors.

Agreed, but my point was from the customers perspective they are similar
in function (Both L2 & L3 configurations are meant to compete with
existing ATM/Frame services)...The fact that it (2547) does run over IP
could be considered a limitation though.

> > > scaleable
> >
> > Depends on who you listen to:) From the client perspective adding
> > additional sites and increasing bandwith should not be an issue.
>
> L3 MPLS VPN's have both positive and negative overall scalability
> implications. Basically, much of the IP routing functionality that used to
> be handled by the customer has now been offloaded to the provider.  This
> means less work for the customer, more for the provider.  It is this extra
> work for the provider that has caused much alarm in the service-provider
> community.  IMO, the issue of scalability will cause more providers to
> consider offering L2 MPLS VPNs before they offer L3 MPLS VPN's because the
> former require less router resources.

Both L2 and L3 VPN's have their own issues from a service provider
perspective...

> Of course, when a provider does offer L2 MPLS VPN's, they probably won't
> tell you it's MPLS at all.  They'll just tell you that it is ATM or FR and
> never mind what is happening in the core.  From the perspective of the
> customer, it basically is just ATM or FR.  If it walks, talks, and acts
like
> ATM/FR ....
>
>
> >
> > > reliable
> >
> > Will be as reliable as the circuits/provider.
>
> MPLS VPN's (both L2 and L3) are almost certainly less reliable than regular
> VPN's, simply because they are so new and therefore not battle-tested.  FR
> and ATM have been around forever, and are well established and stable. 
MPLS
> is still going through growing pains.  Also, MPLS inter-ops between
> different vendors is still problematic (although getting better over time)
>
> >
> > > secure
> >
> > Although your traffic shouldn't be visible to the providers other
> > customers it is not encrypted by the service provider. If you are
> > concerned about security, encryption would be appropriate.
>
> MPLS VPN's are just as secure (or insecure) as ATM and FR.  Providers can
> sniff your MPLS VPN packets, but they could also sniff your ATM cells and
FR
> frames.

And are equally subject to misconfiguration - ever seen a mystery DLCI on
your frame circuits:)

>
> >
> > > flexibility
> >
> > Adding/revoving remote sites and changing bandwith should not
> > be a problem...
> >
> > > Do you know of any service provider providing similar services?
> >
> > There are a number of providers that indicate they are running
> > MPLS at this point depending on where you are. (ATT, C&W, etc.)
>
> AT&T and CW are running MPLS in the core to unify their IP and ATM/FR
> backbones.  But almost nobody is offering widespread MPLS VPN's - Global
> Crossing, Equant, NTT, and a few others.  Right now they are very much a
> niche product, although they should become more widespread in the future
>
>
> >
> > >
> > > regards
> > > jagan




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