Hello Tom -- and "et al" Now that the crush of the holidays are ebbing I can try and focus on some email responses which are past due.
Tom, I didn't intend by my original response to negate any specific professor/trainer/teacher. I simply cited my own personal experience that I found successful in teaching. Perhaps it was because I was trained in a "rigid" catholic elementary school. But I have found that "reps" and "continued reps" tend to reinforce tasks to the brain that a "one-time only" exhibition (which is usually undertaken "once" because of time constraints) fails to ensure a student truly understands. For myself, I learned the multiplication tables standing in the aisles with my classmates and loudly reciting (and re-reciting) many times 1x1=1, 1x2=2, etc. until it was permanently stamped on my brain. I have transferred (for better or worse) those teaching traits to my own teaching along with personal -- one-on-one sessions. The personal sessions I have utilized to give a student confidence and to allow for each student to ask questions that he/she would otherwise be reluctant to raise in front of their peers -- for whatever reason. Also, these sessions allow me to drive home the various concepts I have been teaching and to ensure -- as much as humanly possible -- that each of my students has a firm grasp on these concepts. I have always believed that it was my responsibility as a teacher to ensure that my methods were successful for each of my students. On the other hand, I don't sugggest that a teacher is shirking their duties by not doing this. Rather, I consider it my personal responsibility. Anyway, enuf ( I always wanted to spell it that way -- God Bless you Sr. Victoria!!! ) preaching. Just, a further explanation of my own .02!! Have a great New Year to you Tom (and your family) and to everyone else who may want to waste time reading this thread!!!! Greg Macaulay (Almost) Oldest CCNP/CCDP on Earth Lifetime AARP member Retired Attorney/Law Professor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Lisa" To: Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 2:45 AM Subject: Re: cisco academy's routing skills final ,tough!!! [7:29212] > Greg, > > You may not be aware, but many, if not all, academies allow the student a > retake if they fail the Skills Based Assessment (practical exam in plain > english -- just put that in since you're a lawyer) the first time. Every > area > tasked in the practical is covered at least once in a lab experiment > during the semester. > > The 60% failure rate I had indicated was for the first try. Final pass rate > was 90%. I don't think this is an unacceptable failure rate for CCNP > level students. BTW, I am reminded, from my days as a consultant for > law office management systems, that there isn't anything brief about a > legal brief. > > Happy Holidays All, > > Prof. Tom Lisa, CCAI > Community College of Southern Nevada > Cisco Regional Networking Academy > (Still Pres., Groupstudy Old Geezers Club) > > Greg Macaulay wrote: > > > I'd like to inject my own .02 here -- for what it's worth. I am a retired > > law professor -- having taught law students, lawyers and even judges over > > the years! One of my pet peeves during my career was the inability of > > students (on whatever level) to effectively communicate both orally and > with > > the written word. > > > > For a number of years I taught in Ireland, England and Australia where > there > > was only one examination per year in each subject. This meant that a > > student's entire grade for an entire year rested on their performance in a > > single written examination. Since I had come from an American academic > > background, where there are finals each semester (rather than annually) and > > mid-terms, term papers, class performance, etc. I was a bit shocked at this > > different academic system. > > > > So, in an effort to both deal with my "pet peeve," and ensure that my > > students would be able to effectively communicate their knowledge on a > final > > examination, I instituted a process whereby I gave students, short papers > to > > write every two weeks and reviewed them individually with each student. > > Also, I gave continuous mock examinations to teach students to communicate > > under pressure. > > > > None of this admittedly was for "credit." Everything still depended on a > > student's performance on their final examination. However, by aggressively > > pushing students to master written communications during the academic year, > > I hopefully ensured that they maximized their chances of passing -- and > with > > a good grade. > > > > In fact, though I never -- never mentioned it to any student -- I never > > failed any student who showed up for my final examination. I knew that > > their efforts in dealing with the persistent intense pressure to write > > during the year, and answer my searching cross-examinations of their > > substantive knowledge far surpassed anything they might produce during a 3 > > or 4 hour written examination in June. However, this only became an issue > > with border-line examination scores, as most students passed with > > sufficiently high-grades. > > > > In those instances where a few students who had undergone the year-long > > writing process performed badly or inadequately on the final examination, I > > was always able to give them the benefit of the doubt -- as I knew their > > true abilities from observing their efforts during the academic year. > > Oftentimes, too many external factors, such as a suddent loss of memory, > > physical ailments, fear, stress or other similar factors negatively effect > a > > student's performance on a final examination. My process was a stopgap to > > ensure that those factors were either minimized or negated entirely. > > > > Only those few who failed to attend class, either at all or sporadically > > during the year were not given the benefit of the doubt in borderline > cases. > > Everyone else was given this benefit. > > > > I mention this -- long-windedly (as I am an attorney) -- because it seems > > that there may have been a breakdown in the testing process here. A > > teacher's responsibility -- especially in a hands-on environment as here -- > > is to drum this information into students' heads -- during the acadmeic > > year -- to the point that student's know and understand the information > > without any effort. The lab hands-on should not be a means of eliminating > > students, but to ratify that the teacher has effectively communicated the > > information to students during the academic year. If ALL or MOST students > > fail such an examination, it is a strong sign that the teacher has failed > > his/her responsbilities to the students. > > > > I guess I could go on, but I'll wait and see what flames this message > > brings! > > > > To all, Have a Happy and Joyous Holiday! > > > > Greg Macaulay > > (Almost) Oldest CCNP/CCDP on Earth > > Lifetime AARP member > > Retired Attorney/Law Professor > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Tom Lisa" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 5:59 PM > > Subject: Re: cisco academy's routing skills final ,tough!!! [7:29212] > > > > > Although I would prefer that all my students passed on the first try, you > > > are correct in your assessment. Unfortunately, having passed the CCNA > > > exam does not guarantee success at the CCNP level. I have stated > > > before that I like to compare the Cisco certs to the Crafts skills > > > designators. > > > I consider the CCNA an apprentice, the CCNP journeyman, and > > > CCIE master craftsman level of expertise. Not all apprentices make it > > > to the journeyman level and very few journeymen ascend to the Master > > > craftsman level. > > > > > > Prof. Tom Lisa, CCAI > > > Community College of Southern Nevada > > > Cisco Regional Networking Academy > > > > > > > > > Brian Whalen wrote: > > > > > > > I really don't agree that everyone should pass, tho perhaps that was a > > > > wisecrack I didn't see. Inevitably in any class some students try and > > > > some don't. If everyone fails then yes perhaps that is a problem, but > > > > given the material difficulty, I would expect a substantial failure > > rate. > > > > > > > > Brian "Sonic" Whalen > > > > Success = Preparation + Opportunity > > > > > > > > On Sat, 15 Dec 2001, Tom Lisa wrote: > > > > > > > > > I resemble that remark! > > > > > > > > > > Prof. Tom Lisa, CCAI > > > > > Community College of Southern Nevada > > > > > Cisco Regional Networking Academy > > > > > > > > > > Priscilla Oppenheimer wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > It sounds like some old-fashioned meanie wrote this test. > > > > > > > > > > > Priscilla > > > > > > > > > > > > At 12:32 PM 12/14/01, brian hall wrote: > > > > > > >Just a message to those who (like me!) thinking that reading, > doing > > > labs > > > > > and > > > > > > >taking multiple choice test will prepare you for the real world > and > > > > > > >(hopefully)the CCIE lab need to be exposed to cisco's network > > accademy > > > > > > >semester 5 skills final . I just took it yesterday and failed . In > > > fact > > > > > the > > > > > > >whole class failed!!!!. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >One of our students who scored high on most test and blazed > through > > > the > > > > > > >final written exam in 10 mins, walked out in frustration . > > > > > > >Another student who works as an administrator, was are best chance > > of > > > > > having > > > > > > >someone pass missed it . I myself knew after an hour that if you > > don't > > > > > have > > > > > > >those commands down cold with a solid understanding of how to > > > implement > > > > > them > > > > > > >your GOOSE is cooked !!! . You do have the option to have your own > > > written > > > > > > >notes to help but that might weigh you down if too much is in > front > > of > > > > > you . > > > > > > >Working on idividual labs is one thing but putting the whole > > > environment > > > > > > >together is a whole different animal . > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Once given the actual skills asessment designing, implementing and > > > trouble > > > > > > >shooting you assume that this ones in the bag . The environment > > wasn't > > > > > large > > > > > > >and looking back at the running config's there wasnt much to them > > > other > > > > > than > > > > > > >having MED and CBAC . Ah!!! but how wrong I was!!! I'll spare the > > > details > > > > > > >and say that this was an eye opener . It showed me what I really > > don't > > > > > know > > > > > > >and to do the job in the real world will take a lot work on my > part > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Buyer Beware !!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Overall it was good to go through and to be pushed just shows the > > weak > > > > > areas > > > > > > >FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > > > > > > >http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > > > > > > >Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > Priscilla Oppenheimer > > > > > > http://www.priscilla.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=30180&t=29212 -------------------------------------------------- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
