You can also look at things from the point of view of professionalism. I know Juniper is scared to death of dudes claiming to be Juniper experts when all they have is Olive experience and zero practical experience with using actual Juniper routers in the real world. This is what's happening now with the lab-rat CCIE who passed the lab because he just spent an eternity practicing on a lab setup, but has never run a production network in his life (ask my colleague, John Kaberna, how he feels about these lab-rats). Juniper would like to be a symbol of high-end networking, such that if you are familiar with their products, that means that you most likely have high-end ISP experience. To them, exclusivity means prestige. They definitely don't want to see books in the store about "JNCIE in 21 days" or that kind of thing, just like Howard Berkowitz alluded to.
And more to the point, Olives will become less and less useful over time. My understanding is that many of the newer features in more recent JunOS versions work great on actual Juniper routers, but do not work at all on Olives. So in the near future, you are basically going to have to get your hands on actual Juniper routers anyway. ""Howard C. Berkowitz"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > >Juniper needs to help people become familiar with their hardware and > >software without having to pay 10-20K per router. The olive was the > >only way I know of to help people who don't have corporate sponsorship > >gain access to the Juniper CLI. Cisco has many low end routers which > >you can run BGP, etc on to gain experience that are in the 500-1000 > >dollar range. It would be in Junipers best interests to make it easier > >for someone of meager means to gain access to either Juniper hardware or > >another method like the olive or I predict that they will be shooting > >themselves in the foot and never gain a good foothold in the market. > >Kind of like the way Apple does with their proprietary and expensive > >hardware and IBM did with the MCA bus and Token ring, etc. > > > >I'm not saying that Juniper should give their hardware or software away > >but it would make sense for them to make it easier to gain access to the > >CLI. > > > >L8r. > > > The situation is very different from Apple, etc., because Juniper is > not aiming at a broad marketplace. I can quite easily imagine that > they do not have an incentive for people to self-study on their > equipment. They are quite successful in the focused market niche > they have picked. Independent figures from about nine months ago > projected Juniper would, pass Cisco in the carrier space sometime in > 2002; I don't know if that is still true. > > It may very well be that they have made a decision that they don't > want a certification that indicates someone knows their CLI, but > doesn't have a broad routing background--which simply can't be gotten > from hands-on alone. > > I have been investigating setting up a carrier-oriented lab for Cisco > learning, and I have difficulty coming up with configurations that > don't involve five or six student-controlled routers, plus at least > six infrastructure BGP routers. If I include being able to cope with > BGP errors, add a couple more UNIX boxes to that. Additional > equipment is also necessary for properly emulating layer 2 exchange > points. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Michael Damkot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 10:47 AM > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: Building an Olive [9:941] > > > >Sorry Carl, but on this one I am going to have to side with Joe, > >Juniper > >has requested that use of Olive's be terminated, and are no longer > >offering > >code nor support for them. Not because they don't want to help people > >learn, but olives were used outside their intention, thus they were > >terminated. Therefore, in my opinion, building and using and olive at > >this > >point is in fact theft. > > > > > >Just me > >Mike > > > >""Carl"" wrote in message > >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > >> Gee Joe, why don't you just get of this list and let people learn. > >> > >> Joe Lin wrote: > >> > >> > Uhm.. > >> > > >> > Since JunOS code is copy-righted software. Asking for it blatantly > >on > >> > an open forum is bad... > >> > > >> > And I think whoever posts a location for the software would be in > >> > serious trouble since there are juniper folks that monitors this > >list.. > >> > > >> > -joe Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=30401&t=941 -------------------------------------------------- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
