In some circumstances I can agree with you in that a new CCIE can be an apprentice, but I disagree with you in that every newly minted CCIE is just a apprentice. I've seen plenty of old networking people who have been doing it for so long, that they don't learn a ton from getting the CCIE. They already know a lot and the CCIE is more of a badge than a learning experience. I really can't find that many CCIE's with little or no experience, but there are some. I could pass my CCIE and there are some guys I work with who still know stuff that I have no chance of knowing just because they have been working with telecommunications for 30+ years, and they're not even CCNA's.
-- RFC 1149 Compliant. ""Greg Macaulay"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > I respectfully must enter my dissent regarding "every lawyer passes the Bar > Exam." Actually, each state has different "pass rates" and even individual > law schools monitor their graduates "pass rates," both for "bragging rights" > as well as a recruitment tool. > > Moreover, "passing the Bar Exam" has often little to do with the knowledge > gained in law school. It DOES have a relationship to learning how to think > and analyze -- but not specific knowledge. There are sometimes stories > (perhaps "tales") about legal secretaries who took a Bar Review course -- > without attending law school -- and "passed" the Bar Exam -- but while not > implausible -- I don't have personal knowledge of such a feat! > > In any event, it would seem that "networking" requires a certain "mindset" > accompanied by "logical thinking" (You can't go to step 4 without going > through steps 1, 2, and 3). The CCIE lab exam IMHO can be successfully > accomplished with enough practice with the IOS and a reasonable > understanding of routing theory. > > However, that being said, without more, even the coveted CCIE is not a > guarantee that the holder of the certification is an accomplished > internetworking "EXPERT"!!! It merely suggests that the holder of the > certification (1) has some fundamental knowledge of theory and practice of > networking, and (2) has through discipline and determination successfully > undertaken a course of studies in networking. > > While, I understand the "flames of wrath" will be forthcoming, I would > suggest to everyone that the CCIE is merely an apprentice certification -- > akin to an intern or resident just out of medical school. Certainly the > CCIE holder has a great deal of potential, and based on their success in > their studies will be a good candidate for a company to rely on. But absent > the knowledge attained by experience in the field to supplement the > certification, it is -- by itself -- just an entry ticket into a profession. > > When I graduated law school and passed the Bar Exam (back during the > American Civil War) the rules of my profession permitted me to hand out my > business card to any survivors of a plane crash in my back yard. But > "permission" is not the same as "competency." Surely, if I had attempted to > represent someone in such a situation, I would have been promptly disbarred > for incompetency. > > Similarly, a newly minted CCIE should not seek to undertake major networking > tasks without a mentor or someone else to guide them in their initial > post-CCIE days. In other words, being a CCIE -- without more -- does not > make someone "competent" in all aspects of networking! > > Caveat: This, of course, is only MHO!!! > > Take care, > > Greg Macaulay > Oldest CCNP/CCDP on Earth > Lifetime AARP member > Retired Attorney/Law Professor > > > Greg Macaulay > Oldest CCNP/CCDP on Earth (57 on 1/15/02) > Lifetime AARP member > Retired Attorney/Law Professor > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > Howard C. Berkowitz > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 4:45 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: FW: Number of people passing CCIE [7:35341] > > > Vaguely fitting this thread, I was once giving a protocols seminar at > NASA's Kennedy Space Center. During one of my breaks, I eavesdropped > at one of the classrooms, where a frustrated lecturer on the Space > Shuttle burst out, "this is rocket science, it isn't BGP!" > > > >Hmm... That actually sounds like an LSAT question; Every lawyer passes the > >bar exam and every CCIE passes the CCIE lab! > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > >Jason Graun > >Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:58 PM > >To: 'Michael C. Popovich'; 'McCallum, Robert'; ''Ccielab' (E-mail)' > >Subject: RE: Number of people passing CCIE > > > > > >I totally agree. People compare the CCIE lab exam to the Bar Exam but > >very lawyer passes the bar exam. Only the cream-of-the-crop pass the > >CCIE exam. > > > >Jason C. Graun CCNP CCDA MCSE > >Network Engineering > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of > >Michael C. Popovich > >Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 2:51 PM > >To: McCallum, Robert; 'Ccielab' (E-mail) > >Subject: RE: Number of people passing CCIE > > > >I would say that average is not consistent for an entire month or year. > >I would rather be doing this than competing at being a lawyer. :):) > > > >MP > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: McCallum, Robert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 2:01 PM > >To: 'Ccielab' (E-mail) > >Subject: Number of people passing CCIE > > > >I see that, from Saturday, that judging by Chucks number there has been > >21 people pass since I got my number. That's an average of 7 per day. > >That's a lot, NO? > > > >Robert McCallum CCIE #8757 > > > >"You can swim all day in the Sea of Knowledge and > >still come out completely dry. Most people do." > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Comercial lab list: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/commercial.html > >Please discuss commercial lab solutions on this list. > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Comercial lab list: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/commercial.html > >Please discuss commercial lab solutions on this list. > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Comercial lab list: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/commercial.html > >Please discuss commercial lab solutions on this list. > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Comercial lab list: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/commercial.html > >Please discuss commercial lab solutions on this list. 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