On Jun 6, 2005, at 12:26 PM, Tomasz Kojm wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 17:51:35 +0200
Julian Mehnle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Tomasz Kojm wrote:
Michel Arboi wrote:
I was about to ask how I can help the project. I will not. I
think that
you don't need "bad" people.
Good bye.
You're a troll. Go away!
It's an insolence to cite me out of the real context.
-- begin --
From: Tomasz Kojm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ClamAV users ML <clamav-users@lists.clamav.net>
Reply-To: ClamAV users ML <clamav-users@lists.clamav.net>
Subject: Re: [Clamav-users] Re: undetected malwares
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:41:09 +0200
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-Mailer: Sylpheed-Claws 1.9.11cvs5 (GTK+ 2.6.4; i686-pc-linux-gnu)
On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:34:21 +0200
Michel Arboi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 06/06/05, Tomasz Kojm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
You're distributing malware, so you're bad.
Clamav does not even catch half of the worms that are currently in the
wild. Most of them are dangerous IRC bots.
I was about to ask how I can help the project. I will not. I think
that you don't need "bad" people.
Good bye.
PS: you're distributing an outdated scanner, Im' not sure you are
better than me.
You're a troll. Go away!
My interpretation was he tried to help out in a way others deemed
inappropriate, they replied to him in turn in an inappropriate manner,
and he snapped back in a way he probably shouldn't have if he had been
replying with a cooler head. I wouldn't classify it as being a troll
post, and I personally don't think I'd really blame him for taking it
personally enough to snap back at people on the list, given the
context.
-- end --
A tendency to ridicule people who even just remotely insinuate that
not everything about ClamAV is perfect can certainly be observed on
this mailing list.
This is not true.
What can certainly be observed on this mailing list is a tendency to
attack and reproach the developers.
Actually I respectfully disagree here. I haven't seen a tendency to
attack and reproach developers, but I may have seen MANY posts and
threads congratulating you on the good work you're doing (and I agree
with them). I have seen a tendency for people with differing opinions
to get scorched if they disagree with some aspect of ClamAV's
implementation or virus/phishing/trojan/worm detection/classification
philosophy though.
This is just my impression. If people want to back it up with solid
numbers by digging through the archives, feel free to spend time doing
so, but to me this is the impression I've received in my time on the
list. This particular thread would have been a great opportunity to
have the developers and list members shine in their responses, but
instead the impression comes off as if there is a core group of
elitists telling someone who may not have known better in regards to
the protocols observed for the list to p*ss off instead of trying to
help them out. I could always try an unscientific approach by printing
out most of the thread and asking some non-techie people to read it and
get their impressions of who has been acting inappropriate with or
without cause...see what they'd have to say. I get the feeling that
this thread would not be a highlight in a customer relations handbook,
though.
Don't you notice you are shooting yourself in the foot by alienating
people who want to help the project?
We don't need a help from people who distribute malware on their www
sites (and even fail to properly classify samples).
That wasn't what he was trying to do though. His intention was to help
you. He took samples that weren't hard to find since they're actively
spreading in the wild on their own, went on the list and asked for the
decision-makers to add them to the signatures. If he was just a
"malware spreader" he wouldn't have come to the Clam list asking to
have them included.
Are you implying that if you make a mistake in protocol that you're too
stupid to be worthy of helping out in some way with Clam? I thought
(maybe incorrectly) that he did submit the samples in the proper
channels but didn't get feedback on it.
I believe his intentions were good but he made a mistake. Instead of
pointing this out there were a group of people that made him out to be
a retard or imbecile. I can't blame him if he thinks that only thing
that makes him an imbecile in this matter was taking some of his time
to try and get some things detected with Clam and instead getting
insulted for it.
I voiced criticism, now call me a troll.
I've nothing against constructive criticism but the OP's last message
was a boorishness and not criticism.
It was. It was an insult. I think it is understandable given that to
me it was provoked, and not necessarily aimed personally at you but
instead to all on the list that were giving a virtual flick-off. As an
observer the response he got wasn't really well deserved and it appears
that now everyone is being overly defensive instead of stopping to say,
"You know, you're right, I was kind of out of line and I'm sorry. What
can we do to resolve the issue and keep it from happening again in the
future?"
But what do I know. I'm just a user of ClamAV on some obscure small
mail server out here on the Internet observing the beginnings of a
flamefest on a mailing list.
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