On Mar 28, 2011, at 5:16 AM, Luc Prefontaine wrote: > Given the huge number of libraries/projects available these days > and the diverse profile of library maintainers, a totally > automated/transparent > dependency manager is not for today. It would require a crystal ball to cope > with a number of situations. > > That "garbage" has to be dealt with in day to day use by most of us. > You should get used to it or live as an hermit on some far away mountain. > Which I am tempted to do from time to time but for real bureaucratic > issues like income tax reports :) > > Life can be hard...
Luc's response here and also Shantanu's on the same thread have inspired me to coin a new word, "FANPERV," for someone who Fails to Appreciate the Newbie's PERspectiVe. Fanpervs typically make two moves in response to confused newbies: 1. Explain (correctly) why the perfect solution requires complexity, and then assert (incorrectly) that newbies (and others with simple needs) should or must deal with that complexity from the start. 2. Provide a (correct) solution to the newbie's problem while asserting (incorrectly) that the solution is simple or obvious, thereby implying that nobody should bother to provide a truly simple or obvious solution to future newbies. Fanpervs are often really smart and hard-working and kind and well intentioned, but for some reason or another -- probably usually because they know too much -- they just don't see how the newbies see things. In the present discussion I don't think that newbies are asking for "totally automated/transparent dependency management" but rather for a way to avoid the issue entirely for simple projects that just use core and contrib (yes that can be a challenge if you're new to java classpaths, and for many other languages it's simpler because you just have to put the library in the same directory as your source code) or maybe a few other libraries that they could just download (yes that can be a challenge e.g. if the library's instructions just say how to do it from lein but you're using some other dependency management system because you want a Clojure-aware editor that doesn't require you to go down an emacs configuration and learning-curve rabbit hole). I guess maybe I'm not quite a newbie any more, but for whatever reason -- maybe just a thick skull -- I still have the newbie perspective and I totally sympathize with people who are exasperated with the process of setting up a basic Clojure programming environment. As I said before I think there are several projects that get the newbie 90% of the way there, but the last 10% can be rough. I know that there are many on this list who could provide 100% solutions but perhaps haven't done so because they have fanpervish tendencies... But I think that these can be overcome, if people realize that there is really an issue here. -Lee -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
