Here's a new syntax that gets rid of everything except for :as and :except/:exclude:
(ns two.namespace
[clojure [core :except (ancestors printf)]]
[core [matrix math bs]] ; same as (:use (core matrix math bs))
[[some-ns]] ; same as (:use some-ns)
[ring.adapter.jetty (run-jetty :as jetty)]
[ring.middleware.file ("warp-*")] ; refers all functions beginning with
"wrap-"
; regex not supported because too confusing
[ring.middleware.file-info (wrap-file-info)]
[ring.middleware.stacktrace (wrap-stacktrace)]
[ring.util.response (file-response)]
[one reload middleware]
[net.cgrand enlive-html :as html]
[org.apache.maven.artifact.resolver ArtifactResolver]
[java.io File InputStream])
There are just four key rules to understand:
1) vectors can only contain namespaces and the keywords :as and :except
2) vectors within vectors will refer everything in the the namespaces specified
in them
3) lists can only contain functions and the keyword :as to rename functions.
4) namespaces are referred by placing a space after the namespace prefix
Also, an added feature/rule is that globbing-based strings can be used to save
on typing (as shown in the example above).
- Greg
--
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with
the NSA.
On Aug 5, 2013, at 2:31 PM, Jonathan Fischer Friberg <odysso...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I forgot to add:
>
> I think simplicity is really important, and I think one of clojure's strong
> points are exactly that - simplicity. Simplifying something is not always the
> right thing to do, but in this case I can't see why it wouldn't. After all,
> the syntax is almost exactly the same.
>
> To comment on the message Mark just sent, I don't agree. :)
> I think it's java that is at fault here. I think wildcards should never have
> been part of java to begin with. The argument here is basically exactly the
> same as why :use shouldn't be used, so I wont explain it further.
>
> Jonathan
>
> On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:25 PM, Jonathan Fischer Friberg
> <odysso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There is syntax to ns. It's not syntax in the traditional way, but it's
> essentially the same thing. And Greg is right that it often causes confusion.
>
> I +1 the second version. The first version's :as-class was too messy.
>
> It could very easily be made backwards-compliant as well. All we have to do
> is check if the first item in the list/vec is a keyword. If it is, then it's
> the old-style ns. If not, it's the new.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:14 PM, Timothy Baldridge <tbaldri...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> There's no syntax to ns, ns simply assumes that everything after the
> symbol/doc is in the form (function-to-execute & args). The only special case
> is gen-class, and even that is fixed up to look like everything else. Why
> invent special syntax where none exists now?
>
> I think the issue is more around people not understanding the difference (and
> problems behind) refer vs import instead of an actual problem with the
> require macro.
>
> On that subject when last discussed, it was mentioned that Clojure doesn't
> have a import * method because it's basically impossible to implement.
>
> To quote Rich: "Java packages are not enumerable. The only way to do so is to
> walk the classpath/jars etc. I don't think import * is a good idea, as it
> brings more into a namespace than you are going to use, making Clojure's
> namespace enumeration, e.g. ns-imports, that much less useful. "
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/clojure/import$20wildcard/clojure/-gCg_0wmT5o/LnxDCU6W538J
>
> Timothy
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Greg <g...@kinostudios.com> wrote:
>> I don't really understand why we would need to simplify something that is
>> already so simple.
>
> Because it's not simple to many people. It's one of the main things people
> use as an example when discussing complexity in clojure.
>
> There are many threads and blog posts where people explain why they consider
> the "ns" declaration to be complicated.
>
>
>> That being said, if you really want your syntax above, nothing is stopping
>> you from using your own import function
>
> When I have time, I might do something like that, but not the way you
> illustrated, because that's unnecessarily complicated in my view.
>
> I might either add a hook to to 'ns', or if that's not possible, overwrite it
> to support both syntaxes, or create a different name, like "include".
>
> Then it would be this:
>
> (include two.namespace
>
> [clojure :refer-all [core :except (ancestors printf)]]
> [core :refer-all [matrix math bs]]
> [ring.adapter.jetty :refer (run-jetty)]
> [ring.middleware.file :refer (wrap-file)]
> [ring.middleware.file-info :refer (wrap-file-info)]
> [ring.middleware.stacktrace :refer (wrap-stacktrace)]
> [ring.util.response :refer (file-response)]
> [one :refer [reload middleware]]
>
> [net.cgrand :refer [enlive-html :as html]]
> [org.apache.maven.artifact.resolver :refer ArtifactResolver]
> [java.io :refer File])
>
> Instead of:
>
> (ns one.fresh-server
> (:refer-clojure :exclude [ancestors printf])
> (:use core.matrix
> [ring.adapter.jetty :only (run-jetty)]
> [ring.middleware.file :only (wrap-file)]
> [ring.middleware.file-info :only (wrap-file-info)]
> [ring.middleware.stacktrace :only (wrap-stacktrace)]
> [ring.util.response :only (file-response)])
> (:require [one.reload :as reload]
> [one.middleware :as middleware]
> [net.cgrand.enlive-html :as html])
> (:import (org.apache.maven.artifact.resolver ArtifactResolver)
> (java.io File))))
>
> - Greg
>
> --
> Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing
> with the NSA.
>
> On Aug 5, 2013, at 1:46 PM, Timothy Baldridge <tbaldri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't really understand why we would need to simplify something that is
>> already so simple. Teach people the following:
>>
>> (ns my-namespace
>> ...calls to import fns...)
>>
>> Where import functions can be either :require or :import:
>>
>> (:import [clojure.lang Number AFn]) ;; use for Java imports
>>
>> (:require [clojure.string :as string :refer [split]]) ;; use for clojure
>> imports
>>
>> :refer :all can be used to refer everything
>>
>> Boom! everything you need to know to get started with Clojure's ns. What's
>> the problem?
>>
>> That being said, if you really want your syntax above, nothing is stopping
>> you from using your own import function, they are pluggable after all:
>>
>> (ns foo
>> (:println "Hello World"))
>>
>> Hello World
>> => nil
>>
>> So you could easily write something like this:
>>
>> (ns foo
>> (:simple-ns/simple
>> [clojure.core match logic async]))
>>
>> Timothy Baldridge
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 11:21 AM, Greg <g...@kinostudios.com> wrote:
>>> OK, that's enough from me on this for now, gotta run (lot of work to do!).
>>
>>
>> Sorry, after sending that, I couldn't resist simplifying 'ns' even further!
>>
>> (ns two.namespace
>> "optional doc string goes here"
>> [core :refer-all [matrix math bs]]
>> [clojure :refer-all [core :except (ancestors printf)]]
>> [ring.adapter.jetty :refer (run-jetty)]
>> [ring.middleware.file :refer (wrap-file)]
>> [ring.middleware.file-info :refer (wrap-file-info)]
>> [ring.middleware.stacktrace :refer (wrap-stacktrace)]
>> [ring.util.response :refer (file-response)]
>> [one :refer reload]
>> [one :refer middleware]
>> [net.cgrand :refer [enlive-html :as html]]
>> [org.apache.maven.artifact.resolver :refer ArtifactResolver]
>> [java.io :refer File])
>>
>> Look at the beauty of that! :-D
>>
>> Now not only have we gotten rid of :use, :require, :import, :refer-clojure,
>> but we're starting to chip away at the mountain of keywords and we still
>> have *all* of the power we had before! We got rid of :as-ns, :as-class and
>> :all!
>>
>> Keep simplifying till you can't simplify anymore! That's the Lisp way! :-)
>>
>> - Greg
>>
>> --
>> Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing
>> with the NSA.
>>
>> On Aug 5, 2013, at 1:14 PM, Greg <g...@kinostudios.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> (ns one.fresh-server
>>>>> [core :refer-all [matrix math bs]])
>>>>
>>>> I like it.
>>>
>>> Ideally, the whole thing would be well thought out enough to allow these
>>> very basic principles to be combined in complicated ways (kinda like the
>>> idea behind Lisp itself).
>>>
>>> Getting rid of ambiguities might help make it more readable and
>>> "generalizable". For example, it could be specified that vectors can
>>> contain only namespaces and keywords, and lists can only contain functions.
>>>
>>> If that rule is applied, the original example plus the :refer-all keyword
>>> would look like this:
>>>
>>> New School:
>>>
>>> (ns two.namespace
>>> "optional doc string goes here"
>>> [core :refer-all [matrix math bs]]
>>> [clojure :refer-all [core :except (ancestors printf)]]
>>> [ring.adapter.jetty :refer (run-jetty)]
>>> [ring.middleware.file :refer (wrap-file)]
>>> [ring.middleware.file-info :refer (wrap-file-info)]
>>> [ring.middleware.stacktrace :refer (wrap-stacktrace)]
>>> [ring.util.response :refer (file-response)]
>>> [one.reload :as-ns]
>>> [one.middleware :as-ns]
>>> [net.cgrand.enlive-html :as html]
>>> [org.apache.maven.artifact.resolver.ArtifactResolver :as-class]
>>> [java.io.File :as-class])
>>>
>>> Now the functions are emphasized as being functions (because only functions
>>> are allowed in lists).
>>>
>>> Notice that this:
>>>
>>> [clojure.core :refer-except (ancestors printf)]
>>>
>>> Has now changed to:
>>>
>>> [clojure :refer-all [core :except (ancestors printf)]]
>>>
>>> What if we want to :refer-all everything that's in the first level of the
>>> namespace? I see no reason why we couldn't just do this then:
>>>
>>> [:refer-all [core]]
>>>
>>> Or optionally, in the case where there's just one namespace in the vector:
>>>
>>> [:refer-all core]
>>>
>>> OK, that's enough from me on this for now, gotta run (lot of work to do!).
>>>
>>> - Greg
>>>
>>> --
>>> Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing
>>> with the NSA.
>>>
>>> On Aug 5, 2013, at 12:59 PM, Lee Spector <lspec...@hampshire.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 5, 2013, at 12:41 PM, Greg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Can you build in a way to get :require :refer :all to work on a bunch of
>>>>>> sub-namespaces together on one line, as one currently can with :use,
>>>>>> without listing each namespace completely on a separate line with a
>>>>>> separate :refer :all?
>>>>>
>>>>> Certainly. I'm not saying this is how the exact syntax would go, but the
>>>>> general idea is to rely on the keywords to specify what (and how) you
>>>>> want to import stuff:
>>>>>
>>>>> Instead of:
>>>>>
>>>>> (ns one.fresh-server
>>>>> (:use (core matrix math bs))
>>>>>
>>>>> You could do something like:
>>>>>
>>>>> (ns one.fresh-server
>>>>> [core :refer-all [matrix math bs]])
>>>>
>>>> I like it.
>>>>
>>>> I can't personally assess the costs and benefits of the overall proposal,
>>>> but this would address my concern nicely.
>>>>
>>>> -Lee
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "Clojure" group.
>>>> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
>>>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with
>>>> your first post.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>>> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>>> "Clojure" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>>>> email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> “One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that–lacking
>> zero–they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C programs.”
>> (Robert Firth)
>>
>> --
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "Clojure" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your
>> first post.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Clojure" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> --
> “One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that–lacking
> zero–they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C programs.”
> (Robert Firth)
>
> --
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Clojure" group.
> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your
> first post.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Clojure" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Clojure" group.
> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your
> first post.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Clojure" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
signature.asc
Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail
