Just FYI - I got a new laptop and thought I would give it another look-see. Consider me impressed. I maybe didn't spend enough time with it, but a lot of the rough edges have been smoothed out, the performance seems to have increased, it is just a really nice place to be.
To be clear, emacs rocks, it can do anything, it just doesn't do everything out of the box. Emacs Prelude goes a long long way, and the paredit (or smart-parens now?), tight repl integration, undo-tree and magit are still the best implementations I have seen anywhere, but sad to say, when viewed under a "no time, got to get things done" coupled with "consistency across developers", it didn't hold up too well. To put it another way, I am admitting defeat - emacs is sufficient, the time I have to learn and teach emacs is insufficient. Cursive still requires some pampering (setting up keymaps etc.) and there are still some rough edges (being able to delete delimiters and not be able to add them back for example), but for the 80/20 rule, it rocks. And IntelliJ is also a very nice place to be. Consider my words firmly eaten :). (Oh, and according to my team you still wouldn't want to work with me :). Off to find some horrible backlog work for them now!). On Friday, 11 April 2014 12:34:04 UTC+1, Colin Fleming wrote: > > No worries, I didn't think what you wrote was inflammatory and it's > undeniable that Emacs has the largest mindshare in the Clojure world. But > the alternatives are getting better and better and I think I could make a > reasonable case that Cursive is better than Emacs for some circumstances > and/or projects. I personally didn't like the initial versions of > LightTable (it felt like a bit of a one-trick pony and the trick didn't > really work for me) but the guys working on it are smart and I'm sure it's > getting a lot of plugin love now it's open source, so I'm sure that'll be a > real contender soon if it isn't already. > > Emacs clearly works for the OP so there's no issue there, but I think it's > less and less a foregone conclusion that everyone will end up there. I > personally wouldn't work for you if you forced me to use it, but that's > just me :-) > > > On 11 April 2014 22:04, Colin Yates <colin...@gmail.com <javascript:>> > wrote: > >> Colin - you are right - I shouldn't throw out such inflammatory marks, >> particularly when they do a disservice to the excellent work done in >> Cursive Clojure, Lighttable and Counter Clockwise (and others that I am not >> aware off). >> >> For me personally, after years of using Eclipse then IntelliJ and (to a >> much lesser degree) Sublime I am forcing my team to use emacs. And yes, >> forcing is the word as they are utterly sold on sublime and really don't >> like me much at the moment :). >> >> It is the classical short term/long term win, and emacs is worth the >> investment for us. But it absolutely is an investment. >> >> Disclaimer - I haven't looked at any of the other editors for months if >> not years. >> >> >> On Friday, April 11, 2014 10:20:37 AM UTC+1, Colin Fleming wrote: >> >>> you can fight it as hard as you like but you will eventually end up >>>> using emacs, clojure-mode, cider, paredit and magit and then wonder how >>>> you >>>> ever lived without it, but not without spending at least a month or two >>>> cursing anything to do with emacs :). >>>> >>> >>> As the developer of Cursive, I'd like to politely disagree with this >>> point. I think that Cursive provides a very competitive feature set but >>> without the swearing :-). Of course I'm totally biased, so take with a >>> grain of salt, but I think particularly for Clojure newbies it's worth a >>> look - learning Emacs at the same time as Clojure can be a recipe for >>> frustration. >>> >>> Of course, it doesn't have to be Cursive, there are other options in >>> case Emacs gives you hives. >>> >>> >>> On 11 April 2014 20:17, Colin Yates <colin...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> As others have said - a more focused question would help. >>>> >>>> Our back end runs on ring + compojure using https://github.com/jkk/ >>>> honeysql for querying and straight https://github.com/clojure/java.jdbc >>>> for writes. We use https://github.com/marick/Midje/wiki rather than >>>> clojure.test and https://github.com/gdeer81/marginalia for >>>> documentation. >>>> >>>> This is the first major Clojure app, so lots of lessons have been >>>> learnt. Things I wish I knew: >>>> >>>> - read the ring spec - it is all just a map, phenomenally powerful. >>>> Now read it again >>>> - consider using https://github.com/zcaudate/lein-midje-doc as well >>>> as/instead of marginalia >>>> - consider using https://github.com/jaycfields/expectations instead >>>> of midje. Midje is fantastic, but expectations, particularly the >>>> 'diffing' >>>> looks like a real win >>>> - consider using something like https://github.com/prismatic/schema >>>> to document your API from day one. >>>> - you can fight it as hard as you like but you will eventually end >>>> up using emacs, clojure-mode, cider, paredit and magit and then wonder >>>> how >>>> you ever lived without it, but not without spending at least a month or >>>> two >>>> cursing anything to do with emacs :). >>>> >>>> Just my random, off the cuff thoughts. Hope they help. >>>> >>>> On Thursday, April 10, 2014 3:13:19 PM UTC+1, Kashyap CK wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> I have the opportunity to build a set of services from scratch. I plan >>>>> to use clojure for this. >>>>> I'd like to experiment with options available out there - options such >>>>> as - what webserver, what database etc. I'd like it very much if you >>>>> could >>>>> share some of your experiences in this and possibly some pitfalls to >>>>> avoid. >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Kashyap >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to clo...@googlegroups.com >>>> >>>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with >>>> your first post. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> clojure+u...@googlegroups.com >>>> >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to clojure+u...@googlegroups.com. >>>> >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Clojure" group. >> To post to this group, send email to clo...@googlegroups.com >> <javascript:> >> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with >> your first post. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> clojure+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Clojure" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to clojure+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
