Jarrod Major wrote:
Hey Andrew,
This thread is likely to go as long as the one you started about championing your cause at school.
I'm doing well on that front. Although it's still not technically
"allowed", I found a SSH client with white background (not to be
confused with Command Prompt, which is strictly forbidden) and a friend
of mine wrote a useful Applescript (an oxymoron, I thought...) to open
up xterm with MacOS. I feel an opportunity to get full access, because
the tech is having trouble with installing an FTP server on Mandrake
9.2. Anyone know a good FTP server for Mandrake 9.2, guaranteed to
compile? :)
I think that most people in this group would agree that Linux is not a hobby OS. As far as OS's go, this one is quite mature and getting better all the time. The thing I would point out here is that what the average Joe/Joanne would consider an OS is actually a GUI and that is where you will get the vastly different opinions.
I think from the server standpoint there is no argument, Linux is robust enough to handle just about anything you can throw at it and mostly limited by hardware.
Very true. Often, when using linux, I feel no need for the GUI anyway.
I am the first to admit that XP does better for games, so I use it as my
desktop system. That being said, I prefer emacs/elinks/pine to their
windows counterparts for many things (except when I need graphics: a
rare occurance). The GUI is, indeed, the final piece of the puzzle for
total usability. This includes being provided with a strong set of
GUI-based config utilities.
From a desktop standpoint I would disagree with Shawn. For me KDE satisfies most of what I need a Window Manager for and then some. I am a big Koffice users and I have found that the apps are quite well developed. I have used Kspread extensively. In fact, the CLUG Financial Statement and Schedules were done in Kspread. No small feat. I have other lists made in KSpread. I would like to add that Kspread opened an Excel file (Office 2003) just fine.
I use Kword for wordprocessing and it works just fine for me. I've composed professional looking letters for things like the message I fax to the Herald on a monthly basis.
I didn't want to shell out the money for Office Pro, so when I need to
open a powerpoint presentation (for school mainly), I just use OO
Impress. Isn't free software lovely?
The rest of the apps are mostly web related and work just fine for me also. There's a few things that I miss but I make do all the same. There's many ways to skin the cat.
As a graphic artist I have also worked with the GIMP for raster images and it's a powerful tool, again it opens PhotoShop files which I think is very cool.
The only piece that is missing from my puzzle is a professional quality vector graphics application. Sketch and Kontour are coming along but they have a ways to go to compete with the Likes of Illustrator.
I would like to see Flash (the developer version, not just the player)
ported to Linux. BTW, I'm not sure it isn't, so correct me if I'm
wrong. Once Flash is ported to Linux, there would be no better
development system in terms of native programs or web-based interactive
content.
So for me, I find Linux very usable on a daily basis and not just for trivial stuff. I think it's only going to get better. But to call it a hobby OS, nope that's just FUD.
I think the biggest challenge to users is configuration. The tools are there but they are not always easy to use. Things like SuSE's YaST make it easier.
I haven't tried SuSE, personally. I'm a Redhat/Fedora man myself. I
think that the redhat-config tools are quite useful and usable. As can
be seen from the simplified control panel on WinXP, average users don't
NEED many options.
I consider myself a power user. Please don't confuse that with being a Linux guru, I'll be the first to admit that I don't know everything about Linux in fact I am constantly stumped by some of this stuff. However, I do most of what I need to do on a daily basis. This includes printing and CD burning.
Jarrod
----- Original Message -----
From: Shawn Grover
Sent: 3/23/2004 4:05:23 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [clug-talk] Is Linux a Hobby System? Your thoughts
I'm of two minds on this. But both say that Linux is NOT a hobby system.
First, Linux is more than capable and professional enough to fill any server role. Period. Anyone building a server has to go through similar issues getting a Windows server or a Linux server running properly - the server needs to be configured for your specific needs, regardless of OS.
Second, For the desktop, I don't think Linux is "quite" there yet. It's damn close, and is suitable to anyone who can figure out the "non-windows" method of doing things. And that's where the rub is. There are TOOO many people trained (either through formal courses, or just average use) in windows. The Linux community has done a great job of adopting some aspects of windows that make sense, but evolving others that don't make sense in Windows. The Windows users find this to be foriegn to their way of thinking.
The next big stumbling block for Linux on the desktop is installation. Anyone can install Windows by blindly click "OK", and letting the installer figure out your hardware. Linux has made huge strides in this area as well, but there is still a perception that Linux is difficult to install.
I have my non-technical roommate setup on linux, (Suse 8.2), and he doesn't doesn't have any problems doing what he needs. But then again, he pretty much only uses the web. His girlfriend acutally opened OpenOffice and created a spreadsheet without any input from me (her first foray into Linux/OpenOffice). She lost the file when she saved it, but only because she didn't track where the file was getting saved to - we found it, and she used KMail to send it out. I only had to help with finding the file. I only mention these instances because I think this speaks volumes about how "hard" it is to learn linux for the desktop - not very hard at all.
My thoughts.
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Andrew Graupe
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 3:40 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [clug-talk] Is Linux a Hobby System? Your thoughts
All CLUG members: while trying to promote linux at school and around
the community (an uphill battle, trust me), I have encountered several
people who say that Linux is a "hobby" OS. Sadly, the other problem is
they are to logic what Osama bin Laden is to pacifism. What are your
thoughts on this issue? Is Linux (through a distro such as
Fedora/Debian/Red Hat) easy enough to use for the average user? Is
Linux a hobby system? Also, what is the best way to convince others
(even some power-users) that Linux is more than just a hobby system.
Just doing my part to help OSS.
Andrew
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