One occasionally sees Barient 36’s on EBay for a grand or so each. The 36 has a power ratio of around 62, which according to the Harken formula I mentioned would bring the force on the end of the winch handle to about 55 pounds for my 135.
The Lewmar EVO65ST’s on Defender at a bit under $3k each would be pricey (though a lot less than Harkens), but would do the job you want. You can buy Barient 32 non-self-tailers on EBay pretty reasonably. And get 32ST conversion kits from Winchmate for $650 per winch. So you might be able to put 32ST’s in place of the 28ST’s for something like $2500 all up. The bases on my 32s are almost the same diameter as the 28s. Move the 28s and use them for your spinnaker – for which they work well. I have the same situation as you do with the lifelines being close to the winches. So I use the double grip winch handles for trimming to assist the grinder. Don’t do diddly for single handing. I did move my stanchions out to the toerail, which made for slightly more clearance, but using a long winch handle is still problematic. Have you thought about using some of your resources to recruit a couple of “winch apes” from a local college, rather than spending big bucks to upgrade the winches? Tell them it’s cross-fit training and will get them a spot on one of those TV reality shows. Some old information from Harken indicated that the average male could exert a max of around 50 pounds in a horizontal direction, about 75-100 pulling up, and 125-150 pulling down (IIRC, Though I’m certain of the 50 pound number). The information about selecting winches from the Harken site currently recommends keeping the force level around 35 for longer term comfort and a mixed sex crew. BTW, the formula on the Harken Website is: (Sail Area X 6) / Power ratio = Force or (Sail Area X 6) /force = power ratio Rick Brass Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of rjcasciato via CnC-List Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 11:41 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: rjcasciato <rjcasci...@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII Thanks Rick and Josh... To correct my earlier post...my current winches are Barient 28ST's.....the width of the winch coming is 9" and the winch base measures at 8.5" now. The lower life line is about 9" from the center of the winch... So the situation on by boat is.....she is set up to race only.....she was sailed by a nice old couple on the way to church once a week during the mid 80's up to 1997. When I bought her in 1997, I started an almost annual process of upgrading .....the boat now not only looks great, but races very well to her rating in PHRF. These winches are original to the boat (1977) and have been rebuilt at least once by me.... We sail with a Pentax 155 and a full batten main .....also a 135 and a 110. It takes a gorilla to bring the 155 in when tacking in anything over 8kts. I like the idea of longer handles but there's the issue of hitting the lifelines, etc. I just think it's time to move on to a modern winch...... Harken is the obvious choice, but I thought there might be an alternative to their pricing.. Weight is also a religion on my boat, so big heavy and chrome don't make it.... Thanks again Ron Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Rick Brass via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > Date: 8/26/16 12:18 AM (GMT-05:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: Rick Brass <rickbr...@earthlink.net <mailto:rickbr...@earthlink.net> > Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII 38ST’s? Those must be huge. I replaced the old Merriman 33 primaries on Imzadi with Barient 32s (equivalent to Anderson/Lewmar/Harken 58 or 56), and I’m in the process of upgrading to 32ST’s to make single handing easier. But even with these big winches cranking in the 155 was a chore. The 135 headsail I now use is easier, but I can’t imagine that I would want anything smaller unless I was limiting the size of the headsail to 100 or 110 and not going out in winds of 20 apparent or more. I’ve tried using the Barient 28 secondaries (equivalent to Harken 52s) to trim the headsail a few times. The bigger winched are noticeably easier. Harken recommends a formula based on sail area to calculate the target power ratio of new winches. Based on a 400 sq. ft. headsail (100% on our boats) and a pull of 35 pounds on the winch handle, Harken 68’s are the right size for our boats. My 135 is 562 sq. ft., which means the load on the end of the winch handle can be as high as 60 pounds with my current winches. I’d definitely stick with the big winches. So why are you replacing your big winches? Are they worn out beyond redemption? Rick Brass Imzadi C&C 38 mk 2 la Belle Aurore C&C 25 mk1 Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rjcasciato via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 10:34 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Cc: Rjcasciato <rjcasci...@comcast.net <mailto:rjcasci...@comcast.net> > Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C&C 38MKII Hoping there is some help and advice out there among the group. I’m going to replace my primary winches on Impromptu over the winter. Currently, I have a pair of Barient 38ST’s. While I think it would be nice to try a 3 speed…….I’m sure that price is prohibitive. So given the size of the current winches………….who has had some good experience with other manufacturers and keeping value in mind, any recommendations. The boat is used primarily for PHRF racing………but like most of , the crew is aging gracefully………..and I’d like to keep it that way. Thanks for your input and insight. Ron C. Impromptu C&C 38MKIIC…..’77
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