Hi cocooners, Now that I have your attention, I would like to discuss the ideal of non-compromised development of full-blown, stable, scallable and manageable applications with open-source only and how far one could get to fulfill this. It is probably little OT on this list, but I think a bunch of very open-minded and progressive folks is here, so I hope I could get some discussion going. I think many of you have reached some status quo which could be of great service to all the newcomers. Nevertheless, everybody is probably tired of yet another bugs, yet another unanswered questions, yet another everyday technology-related problems and there is no end to this. But I have a faith that there is some solution that could be achieved with open source and it waits to be discovered. It starts with what one wants to achieve. For me, it is secure content-centric multi-user roles web portal, with professional design, able to serve without interruption even by ongoing changes and high user traffic. But I think the framework I'd like to propose here may be universal enough to be equally worth also for many other means. If you got so far with me, I'd like to start being concrete: 1) Operating system Proposal: Linux Remarks: One could discuss the distributions or other Unix derivates here, but I think it's irrelevant for further points. 2) Programming language Proposal: pure Java 1.3.1x Remarks: I know many of you are trying 1.4 out, but it may still take some time to be able to be used for production sites. Moreover, many open source technologies were still not ported to 1.4. Correct me if I'm wrong. 3) Application framework Proposal: JBoss 3.x Remarks: This is worth discussion, as many of you use iPlanet or don't use any J2EE or related technologies at all. I think JBoss is good for achieving scallability for the site. What concrete parts of JBoss are involved, is very OT here. 4) Business Logic Persistence Proposal: Firebird RDBMS as JBoss service Remarks: I personally think it is most evolved open-source database now. The problem is, almost nobody uses it, the JDBC driver is beta etc. Next good candidate could be PostgreSQL - with more user support, so maybe better solution. Any ideas? 5) Web container Proposal: Jetty as JBoss service Remarks: I know Tomcat is more used, but Jetty is easier to be integrated into JBoss and both offer similar if not same functionality. This is a point I would like to discuss further. 6) Content Persistence Proposal: stand-alone XIndice Remarks: This component should be used only for content without business logic, outside J2EE, for example for simple static content editing templates and external content syndicate subscription. Simply for everything that's too light to be served by deep application logic. Did anybody use it already? That's a question. 7) Content Framework Proposal: Cocoon, what else :) Remarks: The task of Cocoon is to separate Logic from Design, what it should be good at. I want to get more detailed here: Starting with structured XSP, xincluding or transforming (what is better?) parts of final site together, using taglib logicsheets for access to business logic that is delegated to J2EE (did anybody here got it working?), other taglib for content persistence and yet other for reused content elements. The XSP should contain as little Java as possible, all hrefs should be good organized with sitemap and XForm could be used for user inputs (are we so far?). XSP should somehow incorporate JAAS from JBoss for user authorisation to access the documents (anybody tried this?) The result of multiple transformations is then complete site as XML, that is further processed using XSLT to incorporate the design and graphics and serialized to appropriate end format. If possible, all the vector design elements should be dynamically created using SVG (anybody?), page should be somehow cacheable for better response times (???) and the final result should be optimized for several types of client (is DELI of use here?) and/or serialized to PDF (do I expect too much?). The workflow by creating the content can be following: After initial discussion between involved parties, dummy working XSP/XSL is/are created, possibly reusing already available static elements from taglibs. Then, database/J2EE developers work on filling it with propper dynamic data, content writers type in internationalized static texts and designers are parallel creating more mature XSL, icons, SVG and thin client customizations. Working adjustments are posted to versioning system without injuring established interfaces to other team members. Final version emerges and the team could proceed to other page. Seems like heaven to me, but is probably hell to achieve. Or is similar optimized team workflow available anywhere in this world? 8) Web frontend Proposal: Apache Remarks: This is only for security reasons - the task of Apache is just to forward the requests. I think more of you are using it, true? 9) Suporting Tools XML editor: ??? (I use several or write the XML from scratch) XSL editor: ??? (Did not find good free one) SVG editor: ??? (any free one available?) Versioning: CVS (makes some trouble for JBoss) Dev IDE: Eclicpse (I use JBuilder now but want to switch) Sitemap editor: Pollo (is there anything else?) Project Management: PHPMyProject (or other web-based solution?) Database Management: ibMyAdmin (depending on DB, of course) Project Modeling: Poseidon CE (used to visualize the business proccess, generating DB structure, EJB and documentation from XMI is still not mature enough for serious use in my eyes) anything else you use? Now, I got about 80% of above configuration working, but have severe problems with integrating the rest. I'm eager to share my experience with anybody who is interested and even more eager to get the rest or another worthy combination to work together. Many times I feel like reinventing the wheel, or some dreaded little problem of incompatibility makes me to start again with other versions of components. I hope I could find anybody to go through this hell with me and then share the results for the community. There are probably other people trying to achieve similar environments, I would be happy to know about them and their progress. OK, I'd better stop now, this post got too long for occupied open-source developer eyes. Thank you in advance, Feel free to mail me personally ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) if you think this list is not the propper place for such a discussion, Peter.
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