Thanks for the posts on what to do when poison ivy comes a creepin'. It is a natural part of things in North America, but it isn't a joke if you get a bad reaction. So, add my voice to the "Be careful!" chorus. I've heard of applying alcohol, in the form of Kentucky Bourbon, to relieve discomfort, applied by placing a bottle to the lips and taking a few good swallows, but I'd be very careful about that. Seriously, thanks for the info and an enlightening exchange.
I've been reconsidering with my first response of recommending the 'herbicide paint' approach (by the way, that means just on the cut end, not all over the plant). Not that this isn't an ecologically reasonable option if done properly (like I've said a couple of times, Sara Stein's Noah's Garden and Planting Noah's Garden are both very good reading), it is just that if I can avoid chemicals I generally do. It isn't terribly rational, I just don't "like" using them or something. So, after thinking about it and reflecting on what I've actually done to get rid of poison ivy and oak in the past, I probably would end up chosing the option of digging it out - or more accurately, I'd first look high and low for one of that 20% who don't seem bothered by poison ivy who'd be willing to help me with the task. But afterward, I don't think I'd mow or whack to control regrowth - I'd smother. I wouldn't want bits of poison ivy flying around or toxifying the mulch bag on the mower. Also, cutting can stimulate growth responses in woody plants (depending on time of year). If you keep severely cutting back any green plant, true, eventually it will run out of reserves and die, but I prefer another means to the same end - smother mulching, where you lay down newspaper (thick layers, like the whole sports section opened up and laid flat, 3-5 sheets generally, then the whole local section overlapping several inches, etc) or cardboard, then cover that with some free woody mulch to 15-20 cm/6-8 inches deep (tree companies are good for this, I run out and stop trucks). That cuts off light and to some extent water needed for plant survival. I've actually used this technique effectively on bermudagrass as well. I'd cut the vine with a pruning saw, personally, since those vines "bounce" around, and chips and sap fly with a machete (don't get me wrong, a machete is a very handy tool, just I wouldn't use it for a clean cut on a big gnarly vine). One advantage with digging it out is that you could do that now, if the ground is moist and workable. Might be too cold where you are? Anyway, you could dig, smother mulch, and call it macaroni, and get on with the zillion other things there are to do in any community garden. Morgen, you are Americorps? I've been wondering about applying for an Americorps vol to work with me on the homeless community garden - how do you like the work you are doing, and how did you find the position? Now, change topic: Kristin, what format would you suggest for those pictures? JPEGs? What size file in MBs? Also, what kind of codes and passwords etc is ACGA's site going to ask of us when we try to post, if any? Cheers, it is cold here today, Don Boekelheide Charlotte, NC http://urbanministrygarden.wordpress.com ----- Original Message ---- From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, January 4, 2008 8:38:43 AM Subject: Community_garden Digest, Vol 333, Issue 1 Send Community_garden mailing list submissions to [email protected] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Community_garden digest..." Today's Topics: 1. thanks for suggestions (Kuberek, Morgen) 2. Re: how to deal with poison ivy ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 3. how NOT to deal with poison ivy (Mike McGrath) 4. Re: how NOT to deal with poison ivy (Alliums) 5. The three cures for poison ivy (Mike McGrath) 6. images (Kristin Faurest) 7. Re: how NOT to deal with poison ivy (Fred Conrad) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 13:45:22 -0500 From: "Kuberek, Morgen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Community_garden] thanks for suggestions To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks, everyone, for all of your helpful advice! Morgen Kuberek Americorps Member Columbus Housing Partnership -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.communitygarden.org/pipermail/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org/attachments/20080103/bf97ad7c/attachment.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 12:07:33 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Community_garden] how to deal with poison ivy To: "Kuberek, Morgen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here's a column I wrote a couple years ago about avoiding it if you have to work in areas that have poison oak or ivy. Even the bare twigs can cause a reaction, so it may be safer to work on it after it starts leafing out. Living with Poison Oak By Tanya Kucak One of California's most beautiful wildlife plants is also one of the most hated natives: poison oak. Few native plants can match the vibrant fall color, adaptability, and wildlife value of this shrub, groundcover, and thicket-former. It's one of the most effective barrier plants, but best used away from paths and well-used parts of the garden. Its signature "leaves of three" come in a delightful range of shapes. But if you haven't heeded the rest of the childhood rhyme -- "let it be" -- your skin may bear reminders of the encounter for days or weeks. And, of course, the bare branches, the white berries, and smoke from burning branches are toxic to humans as well. Knowing how to deal with poison oak is one of the most useful skills for a native gardener. I've encountered poison oak mostly in wilder gardens and along hiking trails. A few years ago, wearing gloves and a long-sleeve shirt, I got a mild case of poison oak on my upper arm. That's how I learned urushiol, the allergenic oil, can wick through sweaty clothing. I didn't get any poison oak on my wrists, which were exposed between gloves and sleeve, because I routinely swab them with rubbing alcohol after I finish working near poison oak. If you haven't used one of the products that claims to create a barrier, this is the best way to avoid a poison oak reaction: wipe the skin gently with an alcohol-drenched cloth at the end of a work day. That's because urushiol begins to bond with the skin within 5 to 10 minutes after contact, but gently wiping the skin with a cloth drenched in rubbing alcohol can leach the urushiol out of the skin for up to 4 to 6 hours after contact, according to Susan Carol Hauser in a wonderful little book, _Nature's Revenge: The secrets of poison ivy, poison oak, poison sumac, and their remedies_. It's a delicate balancing act: the urushiol is soluble in alcohol, but alcohol is easily absorbed into the skin. So you have to make sure to use enough alcohol to wash away the dissolved urushiol while being careful not to rub it back into the skin. According to Hauser, copious amounts of water can also dilute the oil, but normal amounts of water, packaged alcohol wipes, or soap (if used without lots of water) can spread the oil. Avoid hot water, which opens the pores and makes the skin more vulnerable. Once a rash appears, the urushiol is gone. It has been chemically changed and therefore cannot be removed (or spread). The rash is your immune system's reaction. The oil can, however, remain on your clothes and shoes, so wash them to avoid spreading it. For severe cases, doctors prescribe corticosteroids, which interrupt the allergic process. In milder cases, gentle home remedies for itching include cool or tepid compresses of plain water or a paste of baking soda or oatmeal. My cousin Barbara, who battles poison ivy in her Virginia backyard, uses a paste of epsom salts (3 teaspoons per teaspoon of water) to relieve the itching for hours. copyright 2006 Tanya Kucak At 4:15 PM -0500 1/2/08, Kuberek, Morgen wrote: ....>We hope to have several solid volunteers by the spring time, but before >I can get anyone out at the site, I have a major poison ivy problem to >manage. We have one electrical pole with so much poison ivy on it that >you could mistake it for a tree ( I am calling the power company about >that one), but we also have poison ivy just generally throughout the >site and the neighboring yard. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.communitygarden.org/pipermail/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org/attachments/20080103/60748a19/attachment.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 17:33:57 -0500 From: "Mike McGrath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Community_garden] how NOT to deal with poison ivy To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]> Cc: , [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Whoa! Time out! The information in the post below is absolutely incorrect. You do NOT have hours to wipe off the urishol oil that causes the rash of poison ivy & oak--more like 20 minutes. My sources (as a medical writer) are the physicians who are called in to save people dying from the reaction (a week on IV steroids; sometimes in an induced coma) and who created Ivy-Block to protect firefighters. Urishol, these MDs note, causes the only emergency medicine situation in all of dermatology. But some 10 to 20% of the population does NOT react; they can eat the stuff if that's their idea of a good time. Such people often think it hits everyone and so whatever they do would be safe for others. Not so. With a radio show that reaches a million people a week, I quickly learned to be Hippocratic; that is to first do no harm. You will note from my advice on this list that I am almost always an abject coward. I am very proud of this. I prefer "this way is really safe" to "I did this and got away with it". If you're interested in my Poison Ivy removal advice, click here. http://www.gardensalive.com/article.asp?ai=457 If the link doesn't come thru, go to "you bet your garden dot org" and click on "previous questions of the week" A final note: Herbiceded plants may be dead, but they still have lots of urishol oil. Many a Round-uped plant has landed someone in the hospital. "Lets be careful out there, people", ---Mike McG PS: And yes, if its the little book I'm thinking of (I recycled the copy she sent me) I am familiar with that book, which was not researched, not fact checked and yes, I did give the author a good dressing down when I told her why I did not want her for a guest on my show. (and her 'bee' book is even worse!) ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Kuberek, Morgen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 3:07 PM Subject: Re: [Community_garden] how to deal with poison ivy > Here's a column I wrote a couple years ago about avoiding it if you > have to work in areas that have poison oak or ivy. Even the bare > twigs can cause a reaction, so it may be safer to work on it after it > starts leafing out. > > > > Living with Poison Oak > By Tanya Kucak > > One of California's most beautiful wildlife plants is also one of the > most hated natives: poison oak. > > Few native plants can match the vibrant fall color, adaptability, and > wildlife value of this shrub, groundcover, and thicket-former. It's > one of the most effective barrier plants, but best used away from > paths and well-used parts of the garden. Its signature "leaves of > three" come in a delightful range of shapes. > > But if you haven't heeded the rest of the childhood rhyme -- "let it > be" -- your skin may bear reminders of the encounter for days or > weeks. And, of course, the bare branches, the white berries, and > smoke from burning branches are toxic to humans as well. > > Knowing how to deal with poison oak is one of the most useful skills > for a native gardener. > > I've encountered poison oak mostly in wilder gardens and along hiking > trails. A few years ago, wearing gloves and a long-sleeve shirt, I > got a mild case of poison oak on my upper arm. That's how I learned > urushiol, the allergenic oil, can wick through sweaty clothing. > > I didn't get any poison oak on my wrists, which were exposed between > gloves and sleeve, because I routinely swab them with rubbing alcohol > after I finish working near poison oak. If you haven't used one of > the products that claims to create a barrier, this is the best way to > avoid a poison oak reaction: wipe the skin gently with an > alcohol-drenched cloth at the end of a work day. > > That's because urushiol begins to bond with the skin within 5 to 10 > minutes after contact, but gently wiping the skin with a cloth > drenched in rubbing alcohol can leach the urushiol out of the skin > for up to 4 to 6 hours after contact, according to Susan Carol Hauser > in a wonderful little book, _Nature's Revenge: The secrets of poison > ivy, poison oak, poison sumac, and their remedies_. > > It's a delicate balancing act: the urushiol is soluble in alcohol, > but alcohol is easily absorbed into the skin. So you have to make > sure to use enough alcohol to wash away the dissolved urushiol while > being careful not to rub it back into the skin. > > According to Hauser, copious amounts of water can also dilute the > oil, but normal amounts of water, packaged alcohol wipes, or soap (if > used without lots of water) can spread the oil. Avoid hot water, > which opens the pores and makes the skin more vulnerable. > > Once a rash appears, the urushiol is gone. It has been chemically > changed and therefore cannot be removed (or spread). The rash is your > immune system's reaction. The oil can, however, remain on your > clothes and shoes, so wash them to avoid spreading it. > > For severe cases, doctors prescribe corticosteroids, which interrupt > the allergic process. > > In milder cases, gentle home remedies for itching include cool or > tepid compresses of plain water or a paste of baking soda or oatmeal. > My cousin Barbara, who battles poison ivy in her Virginia backyard, > uses a paste of epsom salts (3 teaspoons per teaspoon of water) to > relieve the itching for hours. > > copyright 2006 Tanya Kucak > > > At 4:15 PM -0500 1/2/08, Kuberek, Morgen wrote: > ....>We hope to have several solid volunteers by the spring time, but > before >>I can get anyone out at the site, I have a major poison ivy problem to >>manage. We have one electrical pole with so much poison ivy on it that >>you could mistake it for a tree ( I am calling the power company about >>that one), but we also have poison ivy just generally throughout the >>site and the neighboring yard. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://list.communitygarden.org/pipermail/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org/attachments/20080103/60748a19/attachment.html > _______________________________________________ > The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of > ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and > to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org > > To post an e-mail to the list: [email protected] > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: > http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org > > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 18:28:13 -0500 From: "Alliums" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Community_garden] how NOT to deal with poison ivy To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, Folks! Mike is a wimp -- bow saw, my eye! We go after those poison ivy vines on the trees with a machete! Of course, my husband, the macheter, is immune to poison ivy -- people almost think I'm serious when I say that's why I married him! ;-) (Actually, I didn't know until after we'd been married a few months, but if I HAD known, it would have definitely weighed in his favor! ;-D) What do you think about Balsam (Impatiens Balsamina) as a "cure plant", Mike? Personally, I love the flowers and look for every excuse to plant/reseed, but I've had my volunteers slice the stem and rub it anywhere they think they have been exposed to poison ivy. I thought it worked, but maybe it was just the stem being so juicy. Dorene Dorene Pasekoff, Coordinator St. John's United Church of Christ Organic Community Garden and Labyrinth A mission of St. John's United Church of Christ, 315 Gay Street, Phoenixville, PA 19460 ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 19:20:51 -0500 From: "Mike McGrath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Community_garden] The three cures for poison ivy To: "Alliums" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [email protected] Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original water, water, water It removes the oil better than alcohol. You got 20 minutes to do so on average. Any 'cure plant' cures because it has lots of water in its leaves; you got to remove the oil--nothing on top of oil will have any effect. You can rub any plant on the skin you want--but wash the oil off first. Stay safe! ---Wimpy (& Popeye!) McG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alliums" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 6:28 PM Subject: Re: [Community_garden] how NOT to deal with poison ivy > > > Hi, Folks! > > Mike is a wimp -- bow saw, my eye! We go after those poison ivy vines on > the trees with a machete! > > Of course, my husband, the macheter, is immune to poison ivy -- people > almost think I'm serious when I say that's why I married him! ;-) > (Actually, I didn't know until after we'd been married a few months, but > if > I HAD known, it would have definitely weighed in his favor! ;-D) > > What do you think about Balsam (Impatiens Balsamina) as a "cure plant", > Mike? Personally, I love the flowers and look for every excuse to > plant/reseed, but I've had my volunteers slice the stem and rub it > anywhere > they think they have been exposed to poison ivy. I thought it worked, but > maybe it was just the stem being so juicy. > > Dorene > > Dorene Pasekoff, Coordinator > St. John's United Church of Christ Organic Community Garden and Labyrinth > > A mission of > St. John's United Church of Christ, 315 Gay Street, Phoenixville, PA > 19460 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of > ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and > to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org > > To post an e-mail to the list: [email protected] > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: > http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org > > ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 07:29:57 +0000 From: Kristin Faurest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Community_garden] images To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Dear listserve members, ACGA is looking to boost the visuals on its website and we need photos in some specific areas. Here is a GREAT opportunity for you to promote your gardens, since of course we will credit the photographer/garden site. Please email photos not to this address but to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Big files are not a problem, so keep 'em coming, or you can just refer me to your website and i can download from there. Here are our specific requests: >From this page, http://www.communitygarden.org/learn/starting-a-community-garden.php#prepare we would like to have pictures correspond to the following sections, along side the sections entitled: PREPARE AND DEVELOP THE SITE (perhaps a picture of the start of the process?) >From this page, http://www.communitygarden.org/learn/faq.php, a pictures appropriate to "accessibility" and "farmer's markets". Also, any photos showing interesting design ideas that you have worked out would be very welcome!!! Does your garden have a design that varies significantly from the typical rectangular plot layout? interesting water feature, mosaic or sculpture made of reclaimed materials, some kind of innovative style or planting plan? or some plant that nobody would have thought would grow there? Thank you in advance - Kristin Faurest, board member, ACGA ************************************************ _________________________________________________________________ i?m is proud to present Cause Effect, a series about real people making a difference. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_Cause_Effect -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.communitygarden.org/pipermail/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org/attachments/20080104/c697829b/attachment.html ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 08:39:45 -0500 From: "Fred Conrad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Community_garden] how NOT to deal with poison ivy To: "Alliums" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dorene, I've used impatiens biflora (snapweed and I didn't check this reference so be charitable if I'm off) for bee stings. It's a fun wild plant, you'd have to assume any medicinal quality would be similar to the domestic cousin. One more comment about poison ivy! The real key to the whole thing is the ability to identify it. If you recognize the plant in it's many shapes, colors, sizes, lusters, and habitats, you can mostly avoid it entirely or prepare yourself to confront it. I think that by and large, the plant is so tricky with the leaves being flat in the shade, convex in the sun; dark green here, yellowish there; shiny and redish when young, dusty and deep later; smooth edged, rough edged, oak shaped, maple shaped; bush, vine, tall ground cover, hairy, intertwined, etc etc etc that many times it catches people off guard. I give it a lot of credit for being so cheerfully random. I remember back in the old days when it was known as Rhus radicans... We were all younger then and the world seemed so full of promise. Now they've changed it to Toxicodendron which sounds so hateful, and it's not hateful, it just is what it is. We've hardened our hearts against it, the whole world seems alien and less friendly and cold winds turn our heads. Oh well, my fate is my destiny, as they say. I think I'm going to get some more coffee. fgc Fred Conrad Community Garden Coordinator Atlanta Community Food Bank 732 Joseph E Lowery Blvd, NW, Atlanta, GA 30318 ph: 678.553.5932 fx: 678.553.5933 [EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.acfb.org> Our mission is to fight hunger by engaging, educating and empowering our community. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alliums Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 6:28 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Community_garden] how NOT to deal with poison ivy Hi, Folks! Mike is a wimp -- bow saw, my eye! We go after those poison ivy vines on the trees with a machete! Of course, my husband, the macheter, is immune to poison ivy -- people almost think I'm serious when I say that's why I married him! ;-) (Actually, I didn't know until after we'd been married a few months, but if I HAD known, it would have definitely weighed in his favor! ;-D) What do you think about Balsam (Impatiens Balsamina) as a "cure plant", Mike? Personally, I love the flowers and look for every excuse to plant/reseed, but I've had my volunteers slice the stem and rub it anywhere they think they have been exposed to poison ivy. I thought it worked, but maybe it was just the stem being so juicy. Dorene Dorene Pasekoff, Coordinator St. John's United Church of Christ Organic Community Garden and Labyrinth A mission of St. John's United Church of Christ, 315 Gay Street, Phoenixville, PA 19460 _______________________________________________ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [email protected] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.c ommunitygarden.org Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in this e-mail message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, distribution or copy of this e-mail message and attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please delete it in its entirety. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [email protected] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org End of Community_garden Digest, Vol 333, Issue 1 ************************************************ _______________________________________________ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [email protected] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org
