In message
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jason
House <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
Correction: HBotSVN was not reconfigured for speed in round 3. It was
set to use two search threads in round 4, and was compiled in debug
mode for the whole tournament. I apologize for the confusing PM's
during the tournament about this.
Thank you for explaining this, I have changed the report accordingly.
What is "HBotSVN's technique"?
Its technique is to refuse to admit that its dead groups are dead, and
then to waste time in the resolution phase playing meaningless stones.
This sometimes gives it a win on time, and is the only way that it wins
games. This is annoying for the other competitors. I know it is not
your intention that it behaves like this, but it is in your power to
prevent it. It is not in my power to do anything about it, except by
reassigning the results of games which it wins like this: this is the
purpose of the probation. It is in Bill Shubert's power to change the
way the server works so that if only one player sends a
final_status_list, it will accept what that player says. I shall
suggest it to him.
The game end protocol says "To play
in a tournament, programs must either implement both
"kgs-genmove_cleanup" and "final_status_list dead", or they must play
until all of their opponent's dead stones are removed from the board.
It's OK if "play until dead stones removed" is an option, but they have
to make sure that this option is turned on whenever they are going to
be in a tournament, or they will do poorly in the tournament!".
HouseBot (HBotSVN) handles this by playing until all of its opponent's
dead stones are removed.
"final_status_list dead" is not supported. It's kgsGtp (not
HouseBot!) that insisists that all stones are alive. It annoys me
every time I see the description that it's the bot that's behaving
badly when it's really a problem with how the combination of kgsGtp and
the KGS server represent this stuff.
I have changed the wording of my report from "claimed they were alive"
to "failed to admit that they were dead". I have done so because you
have persuaded me that it is correct and what I said before was wrong. I
do not expect you to be appeased by this.
I consider it a bug in kgs that
this perpetually gets misinterpreted by spectators.
Please stop saying that my bot insists all of its stones are alive.
This could be simplified by either fixing the game end protocol rules,
or getting kgs fixed (kgsGtp and/or the server).
In the round two game, it was HBotSVN that had 3 seconds left on the
clock. Its opponent, MonteGNU, had almost a minute left (51 seconds).
Thank you for pointing this out. I have corrected my mistake.
The only games where HBotSVN's opponent got down to very little time
left was the game against Leela.
The whole probation thing has really pissed me off. Maybe one
component of that is first finding out about it by reading it in the
report. I have not been implementing "difficult things" for quite a
while. Because stuff wasn't working, I suspended all forward progress
on my bot two months ago. Since then, I've been building test
harnesses, writing unit tests, and eliminating bugs.
Did you know that weakbot50k and idiotbot don't actually handle the
game end at all? Once both players pass, they switch to using gnu go.
I didn't know that, but it seems a sensible, robust, solution.
Nick
I will no longer participate in these tournaments for the foreseeable
future.
On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 6:13 AM, Nick Wedd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
the winners of last Sunday's KGS bot tournament.
My report is at http://www.weddslist.com/kgs/past/38/index.html
Nick
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Nick Wedd [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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