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There are 5 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Help: Arabic fonts for Turklangs
From: Tim May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2. Re: Future English
From: "Pascal A. Kramm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3. OT: My gratitudes
From: Isaac Penzev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4. OT: Re: Intergermansk - Traveller's Phrasebook
From: "Thomas R. Wier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5. Re: Word usage in English dialects // was Slang, curses and vulgarities
From: "Thomas R. Wier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 14:15:55 +0000
From: Tim May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Help: Arabic fonts for Turklangs
Geoff Horswood wrote at 2005-02-06 03:02:21 (-0500)
> Hi!
>
> Does anyone know where I can lay my hands on any of the modified
> Arabic (modified Farsi??) fonts that are used for writing Turkic
> languages like Kazakh, Kyrghyz and Uighur in NW China? Or a font
> for the old Arabic script of Turkish from before the Ataturk
> reforms? I'm wondering about using an Arabic script for Franj.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Geoff
If it's simply a matter of being able to display Arabic script with
the extended characters used in those languages, that's easily done.
You just need a Unicode font that supports those characters in the
Arabic range. If you actually want a font in an appropriate style for
e.g. Ottoman Turkish, that might take a little more searching (and I
don't know enough about Arabic calligraphy to help you).
Either way, a good place to start is
http://www.travelphrases.info/fonts.html
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 14:21:38 -0500
From: "Pascal A. Kramm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Future English
On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 00:37:22 +1100, Tristan McLeay
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Sure they do. Like e.g. Caesar. Pronounced /kaisar/ in the time of the
>romans, hence the German word _Kaiser_. Now it's pronounced \SEE-zer\.
>In French it's even spelt _César_, I believe (no doubt /se'zaR/). And
>'Julius' has changed too. Various historical figures whose names ended
>in particular Latin endings were even changed like regular vocabulary
>borrowed from Latin to English. Not even mentioning the people who
>weren't Latin whose names were latinised and then anglicised, no doubt
>leaving them totally incomprehensible to the person concerned.
>
>Historical figures, in fact, are *much* more likely to be changed than
>present figures. John Howard (Aussie PM) is 'John Howard' even if the
>native name for John in the language discussing him is _Jean_ and the
>language has no <w>.
Ok, noted. I'll regard that in the next version.
>> Other than that, any comments?
>
>It looks very Germanised. I don't expect English to develop in that
>manner, unless the Germans take over the world.
Bound to happen anyway :D (well at least in this future)
>It also has absolutely
>no change to the grammar, but the changes in grammar will be the most
>interesting aspect. How will the clitics develop? Will we see some
>reanalysed into case markers? Will they become verbal prefixes?
I know... I left that out yet to try out the sound changes.
You'll find that also in the next version.
>I propose, distant enough in the future, that:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] will be reanalysed as, ironically, a singular subject
> marker
>(from 'is', 'has')
This far, the singular isn't marked - I have no idea why that should change?
> if retained, the plural would be [EMAIL PROTECTED]@~@
> the distinction between him ('im) and them ('em) will finally
>collapse, perhaps taking with it the entire pronominal gender system (a
>regular plural is easily created with the current [EMAIL PROTECTED], as in
>'youse').
Sounds likely... the entire plural forms may get shafted, replaced by
singular+s.
> the derivative of 'us' or 'to us' will develop into a 1sg dative,
>perhaps eventually objective---with 'me' replacing 'I' in the
>subjective.
Somewhat like in "me thinks..."
> perhaps a distinction between active and stative verbs deriving from
>the simple present and the present progressive.
Not very probably, I'd say...
>But I mean to be radical and I'm looking far into the future, so we'll
>all be dead before my predictions can come true---so I can always live
>safe in the knowledge that I'm not wrong yet :)
It could also be that the many current dialects of English develop into
separate languages... not unlikely at all I'd say.
--
Pascal A. Kramm, author of:
Intergermansk: http://www.choton.org/ig/
Chatiga: http://www.choton.org/chatiga/
Choton: http://www.choton.org
Ichwara Prana: http://www.choton.org/ichwara/
Skälansk: http://www.choton.org/sk/
Advanced English: http://www.choton.org/ae/
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 21:49:56 +0200
From: Isaac Penzev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: OT: My gratitudes
Hi ppl,
my gratitudes to everybody who supported my family and me in these days.
Elena is already back home, feeling much better and sending greetings to you
all.
-- Yitzik
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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 14:04:55 -0600
From: "Thomas R. Wier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: OT: Re: Intergermansk - Traveller's Phrasebook
From: "J. 'Mach' Wust" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On 6 Feb 2005, at 7.03 am, Thomas R. Wier wrote:
> > Pascal wrote:
> > > The lazy American speech habits might even slur "tank du"
> > > into "tanku" or something =/ You never know...
> >
> > So, are all Germanophones as gratuitously rude and uncouth as you,
> > or are you unique? You're not the first I've had unpleasant
> > experiences with, I must say...
>
> I can very well understand that Thomas R. Wier is annoyed about the
> repeated gratuitous rudeness of Pascal Kramm. However, it's unfair
> to say that this is because he'd speak German. He's the only German
> speaker on this list who uses an insulting language.
Yes, that was unfair of me. I wrote in haste, for which I wish to
convey sincere apologies. His behavior off-list has been, shockingly,
even worse, and not just when directed towards me, but towards others
as well.
As for Germans in general, I think there are cultural differences that
can lead to misunderstandings easily. I and many of my friends
who've here at the university can attest that continentals that we've
met have a tendency to be more forthright about their opinions
in some social situations than Americans tend to be; this is
interpreted by them as honesty and a truer sign of friendship,
while for us it can be seen as boorishness. I have mentioned my own
own experience with a German in Frankfurt who suggested that
I personally was somehow involved in the fire-bombing of Dresden
and other German cities during the War. In America, even among
other Americans, discussion of matters such as the fire-bombings
or Hiroshima or the Holocaust requires extreme linguistic
delicateness and circumlocuitousness even in not-so-polite society,
so as not to offend others' sensibilities.
I once learned this to my chagrin when I joked sardonically to the
chair of our department that Mirabeau Lamar, the second President
of the Republic of Texas, had precisely three accomplishments: he
devalued the redback, the Republic's currency; he led a failed
invasion of New Mexico; and he ethnically cleansed the Caddoes from
East Texas. I laughed, he didn't laugh, and it was obvious there
was no meeting of minds that the true source of humor is sorrow,
as Twain said.
Anyways, we've actually recently seen an example of this kind of
misunderstanding on the list, when one of the Francophones a while
back pointed out Anglophones' habit of saying "How are you?" at
every greeting, even when the latter don't actually want to carry
on a drawn-out conversation about the other person's current
welfare. The former interpreted this as insincerity, whereas
to the latter it is politeness.
> And as Tristan McLeay has said, Pascal Kramm's answer referred
> directly to what Gary had written, so in this case he hasn't
> been rude.
I had missed that post, actually. It's what one gets for jumping
into the middle of a thread. But I still feel Pascal should make
a special effort to avoid even the appearance of offense, given that
he has now richly earned such a reputation.
==========================================================================
Thomas Wier "I find it useful to meet my subjects personally,
Dept. of Linguistics because our secret police don't get it right
University of Chicago half the time." -- octogenarian Sheikh Zayed of
1010 E. 59th Street Abu Dhabi, to a French reporter.
Chicago, IL 60637
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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 14:05:32 -0600
From: "Thomas R. Wier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Word usage in English dialects // was Slang, curses and vulgarities
> > No, Tristan and Andreas are rather exaggerating the death of "shall".
>
> Excuse me? When have I exaggerated the death of 'shall'?
Well, what you did say was that you don't use "shall", and that you
thought it was only used in the KJV Bible, which uses an archaic
version of modern English. Doing a quick search with an online
Bible using the New International Version (ca. 1970-80s?), I found
409 instances of "shall", in most books of the Bible, New and Old
Testament, and including instances not used in questions or in the
first person. E.g. Revelation 1:7 reads: "So shall it be! Amen".
==========================================================================
Thomas Wier "I find it useful to meet my subjects personally,
Dept. of Linguistics because our secret police don't get it right
University of Chicago half the time." -- octogenarian Sheikh Zayed of
1010 E. 59th Street Abu Dhabi, to a French reporter.
Chicago, IL 60637
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