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There are 9 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: DECAL: More class videos - now in *both* formats
From: taliesin the storyteller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2. long consonants
From: # 1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3. Re: long consonants
From: bob thornton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4. Re: long consonants
From: Arthaey Angosii <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5. A different kind of name mangling question
From: "Elyse M. Grasso" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6. Re: long consonants
From: Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7. Re: long consonants
From: Roger Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8. Re: long consonants
From: Carlos Castillo-Garsow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9. Re: long consonants
From: Sanghyeon Seo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 23:08:00 +0100
From: taliesin the storyteller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: DECAL: More class videos - now in *both* formats
* Sai Emrys said on 2005-03-08 22:00:44 +0100
> New this week: more morphosyntax, one day of talking about two
> students' conlangs (one for a vaguely Amerindian conculture, another
> for a first-order-logic loglang), and one talking about different
> ideas of how Sapir-Whorf can work (and be manipulated), with a bit of
> digression about Spanish "haber" being derived from Catalan "hi ha".
> ;-)
The previous episodes served as entertainment the Saturday that was
(yep, got no life). Wish I were there, sounds like great fun.
t.
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 17:26:22 -0500
From: # 1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: long consonants
I'd want to ask if much languages distinguish long and short consonants
like if /na/ and /n:a/ would have different meanings as it would be of /na/
and /na:/
that's because I begun a language that I wanted to have only a few
consonants and vowels and to extend the possibilities the vowels and some of
the consonants have long and short phonemic realisations
For the vowels I know it is normal and found in a lot of languages but
what's about the consonants?
-Max
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 14:46:54 -0800
From: bob thornton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: long consonants
--- # 1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'd want to ask if much languages distinguish long
> and short consonants
>
> like if /na/ and /n:a/ would have different meanings
> as it would be of /na/
> and /na:/
>
>
> that's because I begun a language that I wanted to
> have only a few
> consonants and vowels and to extend the
> possibilities the vowels and some of
> the consonants have long and short phonemic
> realisations
>
>
> For the vowels I know it is normal and found in a
> lot of languages but
> what's about the consonants?
>
Consonant lengthening, called 'gemination' is found in
Finnish, and I think a few Semetic languages. It's
uncommon, but not that much so.
>
> -Max
>
-The Sock
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look upon my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 15:11:13 -0800
From: Arthaey Angosii <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: long consonants
Emaelivpeith Max:
> I'd want to ask if much languages distinguish long and short consonants
>
> like if /na/ and /n:a/ would have different meanings as it would be of /na/
> and /na:/
I can't speak for natlangs, but Asha'ille has exactly that. Only /l m
n/ can be long, though.
--
AA
http://arthaey.mine.nu:8080/
(watch the Reply-To!)
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 19:03:59 -0500
From: "Elyse M. Grasso" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: A different kind of name mangling question
Does anyone happen to know a good source that maps a lot of Chinese and Indian
names for various religious and folkloric (?) beings and terms to their
Japanese equivalents? My collection of books on Asian folklore and religions
is fairly extensive, but not very helpful when trying to track cultural
references... even when the manga and anime writers aren't having fun with
kanji puns.
Examples of kanji punning that I happen to know about:
two characters named Hiei and Kurama which are names of religiously important
mountains near Kyoto, but the characters' names are written with different
kanji from the mountains.
"The Journey to the West" is "Saiyuki" in Japanese, but the
manga/anime "Saiyuki" which is (very) loosely inspired by "The Journey to the
West" uses different kanji.
I believe I've also encountered a couplpe of cases where well-known kanji
names are given non-standard readings when used as character names, but I
can't remember the details at the moment.
(By the way, if you ever want to hear modern Japanese pronouns given a
thorough workout, watch an episode of Saiyuki in Japanese with subtitles,
especially one that features a battle between the Sanzo-ikkou and the
Kougaiji-tachi.
How to swear with pronouns in one easy lesson...
I'm still googling to find out if there is a semantic difference between
omae-ra and omae-tachi.)
Thanks
--
Elyse Grasso
The World of Cherani Station
www.data-raptors.com/cherani/index.html
Cherani Tradespeech
www.data-raptors.com/cherani/tradespeech.html
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 01:20:31 +0100
From: Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: long consonants
Hi!
bob thornton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> --- # 1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I'd want to ask if much languages distinguish long
> > and short consonants
>...
> Consonant lengthening, called 'gemination' is found in
> Finnish, and I think a few Semetic languages. It's
> uncommon, but not that much so.
Uncommon? That's not what I would say. To travel around the world,
naming a few not-so-unknown langs: it exists in Finnish, Estonian,
Japanese, Arabic, Greenlandic, Inuktitut, Swiss German, and many
others. (And I'm sure I forgot a few other famous ones.)
I'd say it's quite common.
**Henrik
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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 19:37:44 -0500
From: Roger Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: long consonants
Bob Thornton wrote:
> --- # 1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I'd want to ask if much languages distinguish long
> > and short consonants
> >
> > like if /na/ and /n:a/ would have different meanings
> > as it would be of /na/
> > and /na:/
> >
> > that's because I begun a language that I wanted to
> > have only a few
> > consonants and vowels and to extend the
> > possibilities the vowels and some of
> > the consonants have long and short phonemic
> > realisations
> >
A nice idea. No reason not to do it!
> >
> > For the vowels I know it is normal and found in a
> > lot of languages but
> > what's about the consonants?
> >
>
> Consonant lengthening, called 'gemination' is found in
> Finnish, and I think a few Semetic languages. It's
> uncommon, but not that much so.
>
Right. Japanese too, perhaps to be considered clusters; perhaps Korean, I'm
not sure (the "intensive" or "glottalized" stops sound like geminates to
me...).
Italian (though they may be analyzable as clusters?)
Also the languages (7 or so) of the South Sulawesi (Indonesia) family-- The
primary source is following *@, but there are other sources too. They can be
analyzed in a variety of ways-- phonemic, clusters, tense/lax et al.
Generally, every consonant can be geminated except /w y h/.
Several regional langs. of the Philippines also have geminates, but I'm not
clear on their origins-- I suspect from original clusters.
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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 19:41:35 -0500
From: Carlos Castillo-Garsow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: long consonants
>
>Uncommon? That's not what I would say. To travel around the world,
>naming a few not-so-unknown langs: it exists in Finnish, Estonian,
>Japanese, Arabic, Greenlandic, Inuktitut, Swiss German, and many
>others. (And I'm sure I forgot a few other famous ones.)
>
>I'd say it's quite common.
>
>**Henrik
don't forget Italian.
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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 10:30:02 +0900
From: Sanghyeon Seo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: long consonants
Roger Mills wrote:
> Perhaps Korean, I'm not sure
> (the "intensive" or "glottalized" stops sound like geminates to me...).
I can assure you, as a native speaker, that Korean "intensive" (third
stop distinction
apart from unaspirated and aspirated) is not geminates.
But we have geminates anyway. Off the top of my head, I can think of a minimal
pair [ima] (forehead) vs. [imma] (hey, informal).
Seo Sanghyeon
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