There are 14 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Comma gets a cure -- in German?
From: David J. Peterson
1b. Re: Comma gets a cure -- in German?
From: Dirk Elzinga
1c. Re: Comma gets a cure -- in German?
From: Eldin Raigmore
1d. Re: Comma gets a cure -- in German?
From: Carsten Becker
1e. Re: Comma gets a cure -- in German?
From: J. 'Mach' Wust
1f. OT: Gruess (was Comma gets a cure -- in German?)
From: caeruleancentaur
1g. Re: OT: Gruess (was Comma gets a cure -- in German?)
From: Peter Collier
1h. Re: OT: Gruess (was Comma gets a cure -- in German?)
From: Benct Philip Jonsson
2a. Scots.
From: Lars Finsen
2b. Re: Scots.
From: Eldin Raigmore
2c. Re: Scots.
From: Paul Bennett
2d. Re: Scots.
From: Mark J. Reed
3a. Happy CONLANG Day!
From: Jörg Rhiemeier
3b. Re: Happy CONLANG Day!
From: Mark J. Reed
Messages
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1a. Re: Comma gets a cure -- in German?
Posted by: "David J. Peterson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:36 pm ((PDT))
Carsten wrote:
<<
Look at the following: http://web.ku.edu/idea/readings/comma.htm -- Does
anybody know whether something like this exists as well for German?
>>
Okay, I have to ask: Is there some joke at the end of this story
I'm missing, or is the story's sole purpose to illustrate the
phonemes of English in varying environments and combinations
for the purposes of elicitation (e.g., a North Wind and the Sun
type of story)?
-David
*******************************************************************
"A male love inevivi i'ala'i oku i ue pokulu'ume o heki a."
"No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn."
-Jim Morrison
http://dedalvs.free.fr/
Messages in this topic (10)
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1b. Re: Comma gets a cure -- in German?
Posted by: "Dirk Elzinga" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:03 pm ((PDT))
The purpose of the story is to illustrate J.C. Wells' keywords (introduced
in his 1982 Accents of English) in context. As such, it would be well suited
for dialect studies; record people from different regions of the English
speaking world reading this aloud and compare their pronunciations of the
keywords.
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 2:36 PM, David J. Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Carsten wrote:
> <<
> Look at the following: http://web.ku.edu/idea/readings/comma.htm -- Does
> anybody know whether something like this exists as well for German?
> >>
>
> Okay, I have to ask: Is there some joke at the end of this story
> I'm missing, or is the story's sole purpose to illustrate the
> phonemes of English in varying environments and combinations
> for the purposes of elicitation (e.g., a North Wind and the Sun
> type of story)?
>
> -David
> *******************************************************************
> "A male love inevivi i'ala'i oku i ue pokulu'ume o heki a."
> "No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn."
>
> -Jim Morrison
>
> http://dedalvs.free.fr/
>
--
Miapimoquitch: Tcf Pt*p+++12,4(c)v(v/c) W* Mf+++h+++t*a2c*g*n4 Sf++++argh
La----c++d++600
Messages in this topic (10)
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1c. Re: Comma gets a cure -- in German?
Posted by: "Eldin Raigmore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:17 pm ((PDT))
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 13:36:40 -0700, David J. Peterson
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Carsten wrote:
>>Look at the following:
< http://web.ku.edu/idea/readings/comma.htm >
>> -- Does anybody know whether something like this exists as well for
>>German?
>Okay, I have to ask: Is there some joke at the end of this story
>I'm missing, or is the story's sole purpose to illustrate the
>phonemes of English in varying environments and combinations
>for the purposes of elicitation (e.g., a North Wind and the Sun
>type of story)?
>-David
I'm pretty sure it's the second choice; use each English phoneme in several
different combinations and environments.
Messages in this topic (10)
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1d. Re: Comma gets a cure -- in German?
Posted by: "Carsten Becker" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:24 am ((PDT))
2008/7/18 Eldin Raigmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> I'm pretty sure it's the second choice; use each English phoneme in several
> different combinations and environments.
That's also what I think. And that's also the reason why I asked
whether anybody knows if such a text/page exists for comparing German
accents or dialects as well.
Carsten
Messages in this topic (10)
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1e. Re: Comma gets a cure -- in German?
Posted by: "J. 'Mach' Wust" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:23 am ((PDT))
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 12:24:37 +0200, Carsten Becker wrote:
>whether anybody knows if such a text/page exists for comparing German
>accents or dialects as well.
There are the Wenkersätze, though they're only single sentences, no coherent
text, that served as a basis for the deutscher Sprachatlas more than a
hundred years ago. I guess they're more of an historic interest nowadays,
but it's still quite interesting:
http://www.uni-marburg.de/fb09/dsa/institut/geschichte/wenkersaetze
http://www.diwa.info/
--
grüess
mach
Messages in this topic (10)
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1f. OT: Gruess (was Comma gets a cure -- in German?)
Posted by: "caeruleancentaur" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:06 am ((PDT))
>"J. 'Mach' Wust" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> grüess
> mach
Why do you spell grüess with both a <ü> and an <e>? I thought it would
be one or the other, writer's choice.
Charlie
Messages in this topic (10)
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1g. Re: OT: Gruess (was Comma gets a cure -- in German?)
Posted by: "Peter Collier" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:33 am ((PDT))
I think its the Alemannic diphthong /y@)/, rather than standard German /y/ -
like the Schwyzertüütsch greeting "Grüess di". Use of ss instead of ß
points to Swiss usage too.
I'm guessing though - was I right?
P.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "caeruleancentaur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 3:55 PM
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: OT: Gruess (was Comma gets a cure -- in German?)
>>"J. 'Mach' Wust" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> grüess
>> mach
>
> Why do you spell grüess with both a <ü> and an <e>? I thought it would
> be one or the other, writer's choice.
>
> Charlie
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
1h. Re: OT: Gruess (was Comma gets a cure -- in German?)
Posted by: "Benct Philip Jonsson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:41 pm ((PDT))
On 2008-07-18 Peter Collier wrote:
> I think its the Alemannic diphthong /y@)/, rather than standard
> German /y/ - like the Schwyzertüütsch greeting "Grüess di". Use of
> ss instead of ß points to Swiss usage too.
>
> I'm guessing though - was I right?
>
>
> P.
>
Since Mach is Swiss it's a pretty solid guess!
/BP
Messages in this topic (10)
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2a. Scots.
Posted by: "Lars Finsen" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:03 am ((PDT))
A word sounding like /s3:r/ or similar is common in Scottish songs,
and seems to be an emphasising adjective. I wonder if any of our
knowledgeable listmembers could identify it for me?
It's such a struggle to identify a vowel from those IPA or Sampa
lists. I guess you need years of training to do it passably.
BTW, Scots seems to have escaped the diphthongisation that tore
gashes and slashes through the English vowels some time during the
last centuries. I do hear diphthongs, but it seems to be largely the
traditional Indoeuropean ones.
(I have been euphoric for a couple of weeks, since I found Ewan
MacColl's Classic Scots Ballads on iTunes.)
LEF
Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: Scots.
Posted by: "Eldin Raigmore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:16 am ((PDT))
It sounds like it's used where some older English (such as King James's Bible
English) used "sore"; and where German uses "sehr" (and seems to be
pronounced a lot like German's "sehr".)
Does that make sense?
Messages in this topic (4)
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2c. Re: Scots.
Posted by: "Paul Bennett" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:19 am ((PDT))
On 7/18/08, Lars Finsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> A word sounding like /s3:r/ or similar is common in Scottish songs, and
> seems to be an emphasising adjective. I wonder if any of our knowledgeable
> listmembers could identify it for me?
Is it the mostly-archaic English word 'sore', meaning 'very' (cogn.
Ger. 'sehr', i.a.)?
Paul
Messages in this topic (4)
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2d. Re: Scots.
Posted by: "Mark J. Reed" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:54 am ((PDT))
On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 1:19 PM, Paul Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is it the mostly-archaic English word 'sore', meaning 'very' (cogn.
> Ger. 'sehr', i.a.)?
I wouldn't say it's mostly archaic. The word is of course common in
the sense of "painful", but even the "very" meaning is alive and well
in many rural areas in the US. ("I'm sore tempted to hit you upside
your head right now")
--
Mark J. Reed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Messages in this topic (4)
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________________________________________________________________________
3a. Happy CONLANG Day!
Posted by: "Jörg Rhiemeier" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:11 pm ((PDT))
Hallo!
Let's celebrate 17 years of CONLANG mailing list!
Also, it's Nelson Mandela's 90th birthday.
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
Messages in this topic (2)
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3b. Re: Happy CONLANG Day!
Posted by: "Mark J. Reed" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:17 pm ((PDT))
So the list went live on July 18, 1991?
On 7/18/08, Jörg Rhiemeier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hallo!
>
> Let's celebrate 17 years of CONLANG mailing list!
>
> Also, it's Nelson Mandela's 90th birthday.
>
> ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
>
--
Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com
Mark J. Reed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Messages in this topic (2)
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