There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Happy CONLANG Day!
From: Jörg Rhiemeier
1b. Re: Happy CONLANG Day!
From: David J. Peterson
1c. Re: Happy CONLANG Day!
From: Jörg Rhiemeier
1d. Re: Happy CONLANG Day!
From: John Vertical
1e. Re: Happy CONLANG Day!
From: Amanda Babcock Furrow
1f. Re: Happy CONLANG Day!
From: And Rosta
1g. Re: Happy CONLANG Day!
From: Benct Philip Jonsson
1h. Re: Happy CONLANG Day!
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2a. Re: Scots.
From: Tristan McLeay
2b. Re: Scots.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2c. Re: Scots.
From: Rebecca Bettencourt
2d. Re: Scots.
From: ROGER MILLS
2e. Re: Scots.
From: Eric Christopherson
2f. Re: Scots.
From: J. 'Mach' Wust
2g. Re: Scots.
From: Benct Philip Jonsson
2h. Re: Scots.
From: taliesin the storyteller
3a. Re: OT: Gruess (was Comma gets a cure -- in German?)
From: J. 'Mach' Wust
3b. Re: OT: Gruess (was Comma gets a cure -- in German?)
From: Mark J. Reed
3c. Re: OT: Gruess (was Comma gets a cure -- in German?)
From: J. 'Mach' Wust
3d. Re: OT: Gruess (was Comma gets a cure -- in German?)
From: Benct Philip Jonsson
4a. Featherstone
From: Mark J. Reed
4b. Re: Featherstone
From: Michael Poxon
4c. Re: Featherstone
From: Lars Finsen
4d. Re: Featherstone
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4e. Re: Featherstone
From: Mark J. Reed
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Re: Happy CONLANG Day!
Posted by: "Jörg Rhiemeier" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:56 pm ((PDT))
Hallo!
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:17:14 -0400, Mark J. Reed wrote:
> So the list went live on July 18, 1991?
Yes, according to a post John Cowan made seven years ago:
http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0106c&L=conlang&T=0&F=&S=&P=16564
It was a different server back then, though, and apparently,
an informal network of people exchanging e-mails about
conlangs and conlanging existed at least for several weeks
before that.
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
1b. Re: Happy CONLANG Day!
Posted by: "David J. Peterson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:27 pm ((PDT))
Jörg:
<<
It was a different server back then, though, and apparently,
an informal network of people exchanging e-mails about
conlangs and conlanging existed at least for several weeks
before that.
>>
That would seem to be the case. In that message, Ronald writes:
<<
Glad to see the mailing list is working.
>>
Rather presumptuous unless he saw that it was already
working (i.e., there was at least one post before his).
Regarding the content, I'm not sure if Pale Fire was a commentary
on Esperanto, but I bet the idea of creating the Zemblan language
(and the mania associated with such an inventor) might have
been inspired by the IAL movement. Zemblan itself, of course,
doesn't look like an IAL at all. In fact, with what words we see,
it's a rather plausible hypothetical member of the Slavic language
family--at least from what I remember. I should give it another
read. I wonder if anyone's posted a wordlist online...
Well, unless I'm missing something, there isn't. I'm rather
surprised, because it shouldn't be that difficult to go through
the book and note each Zemblan word, and then to put it on
a webpage somewhere. There aren't many words, and the
book and author are rather popular.
-David
*******************************************************************
"A male love inevivi i'ala'i oku i ue pokulu'ume o heki a."
"No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn."
-Jim Morrison
http://dedalvs.free.fr/
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
1c. Re: Happy CONLANG Day!
Posted by: "Jörg Rhiemeier" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:12 pm ((PDT))
Hallo!
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:27:36 -0700, David J. Peterson wrote:
> Jörg:
> <<
> It was a different server back then, though, and apparently,
> an informal network of people exchanging e-mails about
> conlangs and conlanging existed at least for several weeks
> before that.
> >>
>
> That would seem to be the case. In that message, Ronald writes:
>
> <<
> Glad to see the mailing list is working.
> >>
>
> Rather presumptuous unless he saw that it was already
> working (i.e., there was at least one post before his).
Yes, there must have been some signs of life from the list;
presumably a few successfully delivered test messages.
> Regarding the content, I'm not sure if Pale Fire was a commentary
> on Esperanto, but I bet the idea of creating the Zemblan language
> (and the mania associated with such an inventor) might have
> been inspired by the IAL movement. Zemblan itself, of course,
> doesn't look like an IAL at all. In fact, with what words we see,
> it's a rather plausible hypothetical member of the Slavic language
> family--at least from what I remember. I should give it another
> read. I wonder if anyone's posted a wordlist online...
I haven't read the book yet, but judging from what I have read
*about* it, Zemblan is not an IAL. It is, apparently,
the language of a fictional country in northeastern Europe
(which way a Slavic language would make sense), and it appears
to be somewhat unclear whether it is a real country within
the narrative of the book or fictional even within it.
> Well, unless I'm missing something, there isn't. I'm rather
> surprised, because it shouldn't be that difficult to go through
> the book and note each Zemblan word, and then to put it on
> a webpage somewhere. There aren't many words, and the
> book and author are rather popular.
I haven't found anything either. There is a web site named
"Zemblan Grammar", but it is a blog that doesn't seem to have
much to do with the language; it is just that, apparently after
reading _Pale Fire_, the author thought that "Zemblan Grammar"
would be a nice fanciful title for his blog.
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
1d. Re: Happy CONLANG Day!
Posted by: "John Vertical" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:53 pm ((PDT))
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:27:36 -0700, David J. Peterson wrote:
>Jörg:
><<
>It was a different server back then, though, and apparently,
>an informal network of people exchanging e-mails about
>conlangs and conlanging existed at least for several weeks
>before that.
> >>
>
>That would seem to be the case. In that message, Ronald writes:
also:
>>>By 16 July the list had grown to the 48 following persons(...)
>>>I think that And and I are the only survivors from that era.
Has there been a gradual de-lurking over the recent years then? I can
recognize at least half a dozen names in the list, and I've only been here
for three years now (and even that feels like less
)
John Vertical
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
1e. Re: Happy CONLANG Day!
Posted by: "Amanda Babcock Furrow" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:45 am ((PDT))
On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 06:53:01PM -0400, John Vertical wrote:
> >>>By 16 July the list had grown to the 48 following persons(...)
> >>>I think that And and I are the only survivors from that era.
>
> Has there been a gradual de-lurking over the recent years then? I can
> recognize at least half a dozen names in the list, and I've only been here
> for three years now (and even that feels like less
)
I was surprised and tickled to see my name among those 48 (as Amanda
Lynn Babcock). In my case, I might very well be subscribed but not
posting when this message came out.
tylakèhlpë'fö,
Amanda
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
1f. Re: Happy CONLANG Day!
Posted by: "And Rosta" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:15 am ((PDT))
John Vertical, On 18/07/2008 23:53:
> On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:27:36 -0700, David J. Peterson wrote:
>> Jörg:
>> <<
>> It was a different server back then, though, and apparently,
>> an informal network of people exchanging e-mails about
>> conlangs and conlanging existed at least for several weeks
>> before that.
>> That would seem to be the case. In that message, Ronald writes:
>
> also:
>>>> By 16 July the list had grown to the 48 following persons(...)
>>>> I think that And and I are the only survivors from that era.
>
> Has there been a gradual de-lurking over the recent years then? I can
> recognize at least half a dozen names in the list, and I've only been here
> for three years now (and even that feels like less
)
I don't see as many as half a dozen of those names still appearing on Conlang.
Rick Harrison periodically leaves his lone furrow to post on Conlang. Amanda
Babcock has always been here, I think, though she must have been a babe in arms
17 years ago, seeing as she's still a stripling nowadays. Richard Kennaway
popped up this time a year ago, because he was doing an encyclopaedia article
on conlangs. Steve Rice contributes to Auxlang, I believe.
Some of those names are of course very august and justly renowned: Rick
Morneau, author of one of the foremost treatises on conlanging (his "Lexical
Semantics"); John Cowan, author of the Complete Lojban Language; and Nick
Nicholas, translator of the Klingon Hamlet.
--And.
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
1g. Re: Happy CONLANG Day!
Posted by: "Benct Philip Jonsson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:28 am ((PDT))
On 2008-07-19 And Rosta wrote:
> Rick Morneau, author of one of the foremost treatises on conlanging
> (his "Lexical Semantics")
Which can stil be fûnd at
<http://www.eskimo.com/~ram/lexical_semantics.html>
and iz stil a damd gôd réd!
/BéPé
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
1h. Re: Happy CONLANG Day!
Posted by: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:56 am ((PDT))
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of And Rosta
> I don't see as many as half a dozen of those names still
> appearing on Conlang. Rick Harrison periodically leaves his
> lone furrow to post on Conlang. Amanda Babcock has always
> been here, I think, though she must have been a babe in arms
> 17 years ago, seeing as she's still a stripling nowadays.
> Richard Kennaway popped up this time a year ago, because he
> was doing an encyclopaedia article on conlangs. Steve Rice
> contributes to Auxlang, I believe.
I haven't been here but a few years, but it's good to see that
interest in this subject is hanging on.
Yes, Steve Rice is still very active on Auxlang. I have no idea
if he lurks here or not.
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
2a. Re: Scots.
Posted by: "Tristan McLeay" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:09 pm ((PDT))
On 19.07.2008 01:58:21, Lars Finsen wrote:
> A word sounding like /s3:r/ or similar is common in Scottish songs,
> and seems to be an emphasising adjective. I wonder if any of our
> knowledgeable listmembers could identify it for me?
>
> It's such a struggle to identify a vowel from those IPA or Sampa
> lists. I guess you need years of training to do it passably.
>
> BTW, Scots seems to have escaped the diphthongisation that tore
> gashes and slashes through the English vowels some time during the
> last centuries. I do hear diphthongs, but it seems to be largely the
> traditional Indoeuropean ones.
I'm not sure what you mean by traditional Indo-European diphthongs. If
you're saying that Scots diphthongs mostly decend from the common ones,
then that's not true at all. PIE has the diphthongs *ai, *au, *ei, *eu,
*oi and *ou. As with the simple short vowels, o > a in diphthongs and
*ei had, I believe, merged with *i: already by Common Germanic (or if
not then, then definitely before English was English), so Proto-
Germanic has *ai, *au, *eu.
Now, by Old English, *ai -> a: which in English rounded but in Scots
--- the separate language, not Scottish English --- remained unrounded.
*au had become a diphthong spelt "ea" and pronounced something like
[&A] or [&@] --- no doubt very similar, in fact, to the Australian
diphthong /&O/ corresponding to RP /aU/. In Middle English, this vowel
(still spelt "ea") had merged with *æ: as the monophthong /E:/. In
Modern English of course it's mostly become /i:/ thanks to the Great
Vowel Shift but I think in Scots a greater proportion remain at the
more expected /e:/.
And as for *eu, it had become "eo" which in turn merged with /e:/
(spelt "ee") in Middle English and has almost entirely become Modern
English/Scots /i:/.
So as you can see no Indo-European diphthongs remain in English or
Scots, the last having been lost around a millenium ago.
If you mean that Scots/Scottish diphthongs are merely more like what
you see in other Indo-European languages than the English ones are,
then well maybe I'm just thinking too hard, but I don't know any
diphthongs are particularly I.-E., and even the diphthongs RP or
American English has that Scots/Scottish lacks, like /eI/ have
certainly existed in in the last thousand years in French, Spanish and
German. I guess the RP /@U/ diphthong's a little odd. (Of course, if
you're using Australian English as your baseline, then well yeah its
diphthongs are a little funny, with about a million going towards some
nature of high front vowel contrasted with a single one going from a
low front vowel to a low back vowel. But I'm probably the only person
on this list who'd even think of doing that.)
On 19.07.2008 03:54:32 Mark J. Reed wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 1:19 PM, Paul Bennett
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Is it the mostly-archaic English word 'sore', meaning 'very' (cogn.
> > Ger. 'sehr', i.a.)?
>
> I wouldn't say it's mostly archaic. The word is of course common in
> the sense of "painful", but even the "very" meaning is alive and well
> in many rural areas in the US. ("I'm sore tempted to hit you upside
> your head right now")
I for my part have never once heard it meaning "very", and if I'd heard
it I would've assumed it was just a nonce or highly regional and slangy
use of an emotional term as an emphatic.
--
Tristan.
Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________
2b. Re: Scots.
Posted by: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:43 pm ((PDT))
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tristan
McLeay
> On 19.07.2008 03:54:32 Mark J. Reed wrote:
> > On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 1:19 PM, Paul Bennett
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Is it the mostly-archaic English word 'sore', meaning
> 'very' (cogn.
> > > Ger. 'sehr', i.a.)?
> >
> > I wouldn't say it's mostly archaic. The word is of course
common in
> > the sense of "painful", but even the "very" meaning is alive
and well
> > in many rural areas in the US. ("I'm sore tempted to hit
you upside
> > your head right now")
>
> I for my part have never once heard it meaning "very", and if
I'd heard
> it I would've assumed it was just a nonce or highly regional
and slangy
> use of an emotional term as an emphatic.
I'm not a Southerner but have lived here for over 8 years now.
There are some very interesting usages around, but I've never
heard that one.
Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________
2c. Re: Scots.
Posted by: "Rebecca Bettencourt" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:46 pm ((PDT))
On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 10:54 AM, Mark J. Reed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 1:19 PM, Paul Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Is it the mostly-archaic English word 'sore', meaning 'very' (cogn.
>> Ger. 'sehr', i.a.)?
>
> I wouldn't say it's mostly archaic. The word is of course common in
> the sense of "painful", but even the "very" meaning is alive and well
> in many rural areas in the US. ("I'm sore tempted to hit you upside
> your head right now")
"so sorely needed" is quite a common phrase, even outside rural areas.
--
Hasta la pasta,
Rebecca Bettencourt.
------------------------------------------------------------
I tried the real world once; didn't really care for it.
"I could counter with the fact that a disproportionate number of TG
women I know are computer programmers. ::grin:: In fact, there's a
joke going around that says exposure to computer screens causes
transsexuality." -- Kate Bornstein
Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________
2d. Re: Scots.
Posted by: "ROGER MILLS" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:52 pm ((PDT))
Eldin Raigmore wrote:
>
>It sounds like it's used where some older English (such as King James's
>Bible
>English) used "sore"; and where German uses "sehr" (and seems to be
>pronounced a lot like German's "sehr".)
Yes, sounds reasonable. In the KJV certainly-- In Luke's story of the
Nativity, the shepherds are "sore afraid". "Sore afflicted" also occurs
(Psalms?? or maybe in the Anglican Book of Common Prayer). I'm sure I've
said on occasion "I'm sorely tempted to....." and "XXX is sorely needed",
but never without the -ly ending.
Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________
2e. Re: Scots.
Posted by: "Eric Christopherson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:26 pm ((PDT))
On Jul 18, 2008, at 10:51 PM, ROGER MILLS wrote:
> Eldin Raigmore wrote:
>>
>> It sounds like it's used where some older English (such as King
>> James's Bible
>> English) used "sore"; and where German uses "sehr" (and seems to be
>> pronounced a lot like German's "sehr".)
>
> Yes, sounds reasonable. In the KJV certainly-- In Luke's story of
> the Nativity, the shepherds are "sore afraid". "Sore afflicted"
> also occurs (Psalms?? or maybe in the Anglican Book of Common
> Prayer). I'm sure I've said on occasion "I'm sorely tempted
> to....." and "XXX is sorely needed", but never without the -ly ending.
Is the word <sore(ly)> meaning "very" the same word as the word
<sore> having to do with pain? I've always perceived it to be --
since the kinds of adjectives normally used for <sore> are ones where
you can easily imagine a semantic shift from "so much that one feels
pain" to just "much" -- but now that I hear that it's related to
German <sehr> I wonder. Does/did <sehr> (or related words) also have
shades of meaning having to do with pain?
Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________
2f. Re: Scots.
Posted by: "J. 'Mach' Wust" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:13 am ((PDT))
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 01:25:47 -0500, Eric Christopherson wrote:
>Is the word <sore(ly)> meaning "very" the same word as the word
><sore> having to do with pain? I've always perceived it to be --
>since the kinds of adjectives normally used for <sore> are ones where
>you can easily imagine a semantic shift from "so much that one feels
>pain" to just "much" -- but now that I hear that it's related to
>German <sehr> I wonder. Does/did <sehr> (or related words) also have
>shades of meaning having to do with pain?
It is conservated mostly in the word "unversehrt" 'unscathed', which is from
a rather outdated verb "versehren" 'injure'. Some dialects are said to
retain the word "sehr" as an adjective with the same meaning as in English.
See also:
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=sore
--
grüess
mach
Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________
2g. Re: Scots.
Posted by: "Benct Philip Jonsson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:15 am ((PDT))
J. 'Mach' Wust skrev:
> On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 01:25:47 -0500, Eric Christopherson
wrote:
>
>> Is the word <sore(ly)> meaning "very" the same
>> word as the word <sore> having to do with pain?
>> I've always perceived it to be -- since the
>> kinds of adjectives normally used for <sore>
>> are ones where you can easily imagine a
>> semantic shift from "so much that one feels
>> pain" to just "much" -- but now that I hear
>> that it's related to German <sehr> I wonder.
>> Does/did <sehr> (or related words) also have
>> shades of meaning having to do with pain?
>
> It is conservated mostly in the word
> "unversehrt" 'unscathed', which is from a rather
> outdated verb "versehren" 'injure'. Some
> dialects are said to retain the word "sehr" as
> an adjective with the same meaning as in
> English. See also:
> http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=sore
That link just saved me from a lot of type-copying
out of Skeat! Thanks!
As it happens Icelandic preserves _sár_ as both a
noun and an adjective but not the verb, while
Swedish has only the noun _sår_ (the normal word
for 'wound') and the verb _såra_ 'injure, hurt'.
I don't know about Danish (Lars_1) or Norwegian
(Lars_2, Kaliessin?)
/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch atte melroch dotte se
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"C'est en vain que nos Josués littéraires crient
à la langue de s'arrêter; les langues ni le soleil
ne s'arrêtent plus. Le jour où elles se *fixent*,
c'est qu'elles meurent." (Victor Hugo)
Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________
2h. Re: Scots.
Posted by: "taliesin the storyteller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:06 am ((PDT))
* Benct Philip Jonsson said on 2008-07-19 16:15:08 +0200
> J. 'Mach' Wust skrev:
> > On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 01:25:47 -0500, Eric Christopherson
> wrote:
> >
> >> Is the word <sore(ly)> meaning "very" the same
> >> word as the word <sore> having to do with pain?
>
> As it happens Icelandic preserves _sár_ as both a
> noun and an adjective but not the verb, while
> Swedish has only the noun _sår_ (the normal word
> for 'wound') and the verb _såra_ 'injure, hurt'.
> I don't know about Danish (Lars_1) or Norwegian
> (Lars_2, Kaliessin?)
å såre = to wound, hurt
sår = a wound
sårt = slightly painful, tender, but I think mostly used for mental pain
"et sårt brudd" = a painful breakup (of a relationship)
"et sårt minne" = a painful/dear memory
There's also (don't know if it is from the same word):
særs = especially, can be used as "very"
særlig = especially, can be used as "very"
sært = strange, weird, unusual
"særs idiotisk", "veldig idiotisk" = especially/very idiotic
t.
Messages in this topic (11)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
3a. Re: OT: Gruess (was Comma gets a cure -- in German?)
Posted by: "J. 'Mach' Wust" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:02 am ((PDT))
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 19:33:43 +0100, Peter Collier wrote:
>I think its the Alemannic diphthong /y@)/, rather than standard German /y/ -
>like the Schwyzertüütsch greeting "Grüess di". Use of ss instead of ß
>points to Swiss usage too.
>
>I'm guessing though - was I right?
As Benct already confirmed, that's right. The pronunciation would be
something like [ɡ̊ryə̯sː], that is, [EMAIL
PROTECTED]:]. The apokope of the plural
"-e" also points to Swiss German, compare standard German "Grüsse" 'greetings'
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
mach
Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________
3b. Re: OT: Gruess (was Comma gets a cure -- in German?)
Posted by: "Mark J. Reed" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:05 am ((PDT))
So the diphthong can also be written "uee"?
Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________
3c. Re: OT: Gruess (was Comma gets a cure -- in German?)
Posted by: "J. 'Mach' Wust" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:27 am ((PDT))
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 08:05:25 -0400, Mark J. Reed wrote:
>So the diphthong can also be written "uee"?
I really wouldn't do that. I've heard it is done in the military where they
haven't learnt yet how to type diacritics, that is, if you happen to bear
one of the rare family names with |üe| such as "Nüesch" or "Rüegger".
--
grüess
mach
Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________
3d. Re: OT: Gruess (was Comma gets a cure -- in German?)
Posted by: "Benct Philip Jonsson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:39 am ((PDT))
J. 'Mach' Wust skrev:
> On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 19:33:43 +0100, Peter Collier wrote:
>
>> I think its the Alemannic diphthong /y@)/, rather than standard German /y/ -
>> like the Schwyzertüütsch greeting "Grüess di". Use of ss instead of ß
>> points to Swiss usage too.
>>
>> I'm guessing though - was I right?
>
> As Benct already confirmed, that's right. The pronunciation would be
> something like [ɡ̊ryə̯sː], that is, [EMAIL
> PROTECTED]:]. The apokope of the plural
> "-e" also points to Swiss German, compare standard German "Grüsse" 'greetings'
>
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> mach
BTW, do you happen to know if it is Standard German which
has monophthongized _üe_ or Allemannic which has
diphthongized _üü_ in this particular word? IIANM both
things have occurred.
/BP
Messages in this topic (14)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
4a. Featherstone
Posted by: "Mark J. Reed" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:49 am ((PDT))
Am I right in assuming that even though "Featherstonehaugh" is
pronounced ~ /'fEn.SO:/, the simpler name "Featherstone" is in fact
pronounced as it is spelled, like "feather"+"stone" (=~ /'fED.R=.ston/
for various values of /R=/ ranging from /@/ to /@r\/ to /@r\=/, etc)?
Or perhaps with a reduced final vowel (-/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/)?
--
Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com
Mark J. Reed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
4b. Re: Featherstone
Posted by: "Michael Poxon" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:46 am ((PDT))
only /E/ in very old-fashioned RP! The usual pronunciation of the first
syllable is the same as the word 'fan'.
Mike
> Am I right in assuming that even though "Featherstonehaugh" is
> pronounced ~ /'fEn.SO:/,
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
4c. Re: Featherstone
Posted by: "Lars Finsen" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:19 am ((PDT))
Den 19. jul. 2008 kl. 14.44 skreiv Mark J. Reed:
> Am I right in assuming that even though "Featherstonehaugh" is
> pronounced ~ /'fEn.SO:/, the simpler name "Featherstone" is in fact
> pronounced as it is spelled, like "feather"+"stone" (=~ /'fED.R=.ston/
> for various values of /R=/ ranging from /@/ to /@r\/ to /@r\=/, etc)?
"(=~"? Is that a standard symbol in some symbolic system, or what?
LEF
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
4d. Re: Featherstone
Posted by: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:59 am ((PDT))
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lars Finsen
> "(=~"? Is that a standard symbol in some symbolic system, or
what?
I've never seen it before, but my intuitive sense leads me to
read it as "approximately equal to". I generally just use "~"
alone for that, but this may be better so we don't confuse it
with X-SAMPA "~" for nasalization.
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
4e. Re: Featherstone
Posted by: "Mark J. Reed" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:03 am ((PDT))
On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 10:55 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lars Finsen
>
>> "(=~"? Is that a standard symbol in some symbolic system, or
> what?
The "(" is just opening a parenthetical. The "=~" is meant to be
"equals approximately". Which would perhaps have been better rendered
as just "~", but I mentally read that as just "approximately".
--
Mark J. Reed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Messages in this topic (5)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/conlang/
<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional
<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/conlang/join
(Yahoo! ID required)
<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
