There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Roger Mills
From: Carsten Becker
2a. How long is a phone?
From: Alex Fink
2b. Re: How long is a phone?
From: Michael Everson
2c. Re: How long is a phone?
From: BPJ
2d. Re: How long is a phone?
From: Armin Buch
3a. Re: OT Syllable structure, German
From: Eric Christopherson
3b. Re: OT Syllable structure, German
From: MorphemeAddict
3c. Re: OT Syllable structure, German
From: Armin Buch
3d. Re: OT Syllable structure, German
From: Peter Collier
3e. Re: OT Syllable structure, German
From: Peter Collier
3f. Re: OT Syllable structure, German
From: Armin Buch
3g. Re: OT Syllable structure, German
From: Eric Christopherson
4. "La Aventuroj de Alico en Mirlando" (Alice in Esperanto) published b
From: Michael Everson
5a. Re: NATLANG: Con-scripting a Hamer writing system
From: Paul Bennett
5b. Re: NATLANG: Con-scripting a Hamer writing system
From: Paul Bennett
5c. Re: NATLANG: Con-scripting a Hamer writing system
From: Michael Everson
6a. Sapir-Whorf economics paper
From: Sai
6b. Re: Sapir-Whorf economics paper
From: George Corley
6c. Re: Sapir-Whorf economics paper
From: Nikolay Ivankov
7a. Re: A New Lang is Born
From: Virginia Keys
7b. Re: A New Lang is Born
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
7c. Re: A New Lang is Born
From: Virginia Keys
7d. Re: A New Lang is Born
From: Padraic Brown
7e. Re: A New Lang is Born
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
7f. Re: A New Lang is Born
From: Patrick Dunn
Messages
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1a. Re: Roger Mills
Posted by: "Carsten Becker" carb...@googlemail.com
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 8:56 am ((PST))
On Fri, 2 Mar 2012 18:33:15 -0500, p...@phillipdriscoll.com wrote:
>Is that really a problem? I mean, this is not his regular residence
>address and probably not his regular telephone number. How
>likely is someone to use this information maliciously?
>
>Most peoples' addresses are pretty easy to find. I had to mail
>Roger some paperwork a few years ago, and I was able to find
>his residence address on line.
OK, that's true, both arguments.
Carsten
Messages in this topic (6)
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2a. How long is a phone?
Posted by: "Alex Fink" 000...@gmail.com
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 9:03 am ((PST))
I've got a basic phonetics question. Cross-linguistically, in ordinary
non-hyperarticulate speech, how long is a segment?
I imagine it varies by segment: so are there some rules of thumb like, say,
stop closures are roughly 80ms, when vowel lengths contrast short are ~150ms
and long are ~250ms, vel sim?
Or, how highly does the answer depend on the higher-order timing structure
of the language: whether it's mora-timed, syllable-timed, stress-timed,
etc.? I.e. might the correct answer be more like -- well, in a stress-timed
language, stresses are typically ~600ms apart; then between stresses a vowel
typically wants twice the time of a stop, etc etc, stretch everything out to
fit? In that case, what are typical governing timings?
Alex
Messages in this topic (4)
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2b. Re: How long is a phone?
Posted by: "Michael Everson" ever...@evertype.com
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 9:15 am ((PST))
On 3 Mar 2012, at 17:03, Alex Fink wrote:
> Cross-linguistically, in ordinary non-hyperarticulate speech, how long is a
> segment?
As long as it needs to be.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
Messages in this topic (4)
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2c. Re: How long is a phone?
Posted by: "BPJ" b...@melroch.se
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 9:20 am ((PST))
On 2012-03-03 18:03, Alex Fink wrote:
> I've got a basic phonetics question. Cross-linguistically, in ordinary
> non-hyperarticulate speech, how long is a segment?
> I imagine it varies by segment: so are there some rules of thumb like, say,
> stop closures are roughly 80ms, when vowel lengths contrast short are ~150ms
> and long are ~250ms, vel sim?
>
> Or, how highly does the answer depend on the higher-order timing structure
> of the language: whether it's mora-timed, syllable-timed, stress-timed,
> etc.? I.e. might the correct answer be more like -- well, in a stress-timed
> language, stresses are typically ~600ms apart; then between stresses a vowel
> typically wants twice the time of a stop, etc etc, stretch everything out to
> fit? In that case, what are typical governing timings?
>
> Alex
>
The term you're looking for is "isochrony".
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isochrony>
An article linked in one of the external link pages seems
really interesting, in that it challenges the accepted view:
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2790788/>
(Look for the PDF link in the upper right corner!)
Actually I'm going to neglect my familial duties by
reading that article straight away...
/bpj
Messages in this topic (4)
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2d. Re: How long is a phone?
Posted by: "Armin Buch" armin.b...@uni-tuebingen.de
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 1:09 pm ((PST))
Long vowels in German are about 120ms, short vowels 80ms. Short vowels
appear only in closed syllables, and together with the 'closing segment'
the nucleus again has ~120ms. So this is something of a syllable- or
mora-timing. Yet it only applies to stressed syllables.
Am 03.03.2012 18:19, schrieb BPJ:
> On 2012-03-03 18:03, Alex Fink wrote:
>> I've got a basic phonetics question. Cross-linguistically, in ordinary
>> non-hyperarticulate speech, how long is a segment?
>> I imagine it varies by segment: so are there some rules of thumb like,
>> say,
>> stop closures are roughly 80ms, when vowel lengths contrast short are
>> ~150ms
>> and long are ~250ms, vel sim?
>>
>> Or, how highly does the answer depend on the higher-order timing
>> structure
>> of the language: whether it's mora-timed, syllable-timed, stress-timed,
>> etc.? I.e. might the correct answer be more like -- well, in a
>> stress-timed
>> language, stresses are typically ~600ms apart; then between stresses a
>> vowel
>> typically wants twice the time of a stop, etc etc, stretch everything
>> out to
>> fit? In that case, what are typical governing timings?
>>
>> Alex
>>
>
> The term you're looking for is "isochrony".
>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isochrony>
>
> An article linked in one of the external link pages seems
> really interesting, in that it challenges the accepted view:
>
> <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2790788/>
>
> (Look for the PDF link in the upper right corner!)
>
> Actually I'm going to neglect my familial duties by
> reading that article straight away...
>
> /bpj
Messages in this topic (4)
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3a. Re: OT Syllable structure, German
Posted by: "Eric Christopherson" ra...@charter.net
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 11:57 am ((PST))
On Mar 2, 2012, at 6:39 PM, Peter Collier wrote:
> Can anyone confirm what the maximal syllable is for German? CCCVCCCC
> ("Strumpfs") is ringing a bell from the dim and distant past, but I'm far
> from certain. In addition to that, are there any constraints on the
> consonants similar to the old 'muta cum liquida' from Latin?
I don't know, but isn't /p_f/ treated as one consonant in German?
Messages in this topic (8)
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3b. Re: OT Syllable structure, German
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" lytl...@gmail.com
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 12:46 pm ((PST))
I wondered that, too.
stevo
On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 2:57 PM, Eric Christopherson <ra...@charter.net>wrote:
> On Mar 2, 2012, at 6:39 PM, Peter Collier wrote:
>
> > Can anyone confirm what the maximal syllable is for German? CCCVCCCC
> > ("Strumpfs") is ringing a bell from the dim and distant past, but I'm far
> > from certain. In addition to that, are there any constraints on the
> > consonants similar to the old 'muta cum liquida' from Latin?
>
> I don't know, but isn't /p_f/ treated as one consonant in German?
>
Messages in this topic (8)
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3c. Re: OT Syllable structure, German
Posted by: "Armin Buch" armin.b...@uni-tuebingen.de
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 12:54 pm ((PST))
Am 03.03.2012 20:57, schrieb Eric Christopherson:
> On Mar 2, 2012, at 6:39 PM, Peter Collier wrote:
>
>> Can anyone confirm what the maximal syllable is for German? CCCVCCCC
>> ("Strumpfs") is ringing a bell from the dim and distant past, but I'm far
>> from certain. In addition to that, are there any constraints on the
>> consonants similar to the old 'muta cum liquida' from Latin?
>
> I don't know, but isn't /p_f/ treated as one consonant in German?
It is, as much as /t_S,t_s,d_Z,d_z,.../ are in other languages. It's a
voiceless bilabial affricate.
As for the onset, /Str,Spr/ is the maximum. In the coda, you may get
/rnsts/ as in "Ernsts" (sincerity.GEN), or /rpsts/ ("Herbsts",
autumn.GEN). Note that an epenthetic Schwa before the final /s/ is
possible in these cases: [hErps.t@s].
There are no examples for CCCVCCCCC, though. You would need to combine a
pre-nuclear liquid (/r,l/) with a post-nuclear one, which is rare. I'd
need to go a little deeper in possible syllable structures in German
(and think of examples and counterexamples), and into morphology, but I
believe you wouldn't even get CCCVCCCC or CCVCCCCC.
Messages in this topic (8)
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3d. Re: OT Syllable structure, German
Posted by: "Peter Collier" petecoll...@btinternet.com
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 1:12 pm ((PST))
It is - /pf)/ is an affricate.
Looks like either I can't count, or can't type. Or quite possibly both!
P.
-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:conl...@listserv.brown.edu] On Behalf
Of MorphemeAddict
Sent: 03 March 2012 20:46
To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
Subject: Re: OT Syllable structure, German
I wondered that, too.
stevo
On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 2:57 PM, Eric Christopherson <ra...@charter.net>wrote:
> On Mar 2, 2012, at 6:39 PM, Peter Collier wrote:
>
> > Can anyone confirm what the maximal syllable is for German? CCCVCCCC
> > ("Strumpfs") is ringing a bell from the dim and distant past, but
> > I'm far from certain. In addition to that, are there any
> > constraints on the consonants similar to the old 'muta cum liquida' from
> > Latin?
>
> I don't know, but isn't /p_f/ treated as one consonant in German?
>
Messages in this topic (8)
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3e. Re: OT Syllable structure, German
Posted by: "Peter Collier" petecoll...@btinternet.com
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 1:35 pm ((PST))
If I was trying to summarise that concisely but specifically:
( /S/ ) ( [+cons] ) ( [+son] ) V ( [+son] ( [+nas] )) ( /s/ )
( [+cons] ) ( /s/ )
Does that look about right?
-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:conl...@listserv.brown.edu] On
Behalf Of Armin Buch
Sent: 03 March 2012 20:54
To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
Subject: Re: OT Syllable structure, German
Am 03.03.2012 20:57, schrieb Eric Christopherson:
[...]
As for the onset, /Str,Spr/ is the maximum. In the coda, you may get /rnsts/
as in "Ernsts" (sincerity.GEN), or /rpsts/ ("Herbsts", autumn.GEN). Note
that an epenthetic Schwa before the final /s/ is possible in these cases:
[hErps.t@s].
There are no examples for CCCVCCCCC, though. You would need to combine a
pre-nuclear liquid (/r,l/) with a post-nuclear one, which is rare. I'd need
to go a little deeper in possible syllable structures in German (and think
of examples and counterexamples), and into morphology, but I believe you
wouldn't even get CCCVCCCC or CCVCCCCC.
Messages in this topic (8)
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3f. Re: OT Syllable structure, German
Posted by: "Armin Buch" armin.b...@uni-tuebingen.de
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 2:11 pm ((PST))
Am 03.03.2012 22:35, schrieb Peter Collier:
> If I was trying to summarise that concisely but specifically:
>
> ( /S/ ) ( [+cons] ) ( [+son] ) V ( [+son] ( [+nas] )) ( /s/ )
> ( [+cons] ) ( /s/ )
>
> Does that look about right?
It doesn't get /hErpsts/ (/p/ can't fit your [+nas] slot). I'd go for
the following:
(/S/) ([+cons]) (/l,r,n/) V ([+son]) ([+cons]) (/s/) (/t/ (/s/))
There are a few caveats:
- it does not include initial /tsv,kv/ and rare /sk,km/ (Skat, Khmer).
/sts/ ("Szene", scene) is debatable; few people actually pronounce it
that way.
- mandatory onset (at least a glottal stop)
- minimal word constraint: long vowel or closed syllable
- falling sonority on the two segments after the vowel (first may be
another vowel, and is used up if the vowel is long)
Possible CCC onset are /Str,Spr,Spl,skr,skl/. Hopefully the list is
complete now. /skr,skl/ (note the /s/!) appear only in latin(ate)
loanwords (such as Skript, "script"; "Sklerose", sclerosis). /Stl/ is
banned by simpler *tl.
PS: Have a look at Polish and at Georgian for less restricted consonant
clusters
Messages in this topic (8)
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3g. Re: OT Syllable structure, German
Posted by: "Eric Christopherson" ra...@charter.net
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 5:58 pm ((PST))
On Mar 3, 2012, at 4:11 PM, Armin Buch wrote:
> - it does not include initial /tsv,kv/ and rare /sk,km/ (Skat, Khmer). /sts/
> ("Szene", scene) is debatable; few people actually pronounce it that way.
How do most pronounce it?
Messages in this topic (8)
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4. "La Aventuroj de Alico en Mirlando" (Alice in Esperanto) published b
Posted by: "Michael Everson" ever...@evertype.com
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 11:59 am ((PST))
Evertype would like to announce the publication of Donald Broadribb's
translation of “Alice's Adventures in Wonderland” into Esperanto, “La Aventuroj
de Alico en Mirlando”. The book uses John Tenniel's classic illustrations. A
page with links to Amazon.com and Amazon.co.uk is available at
http://www.evertype.com/books/alice-eo-broadribb.html . Bookstores can order
copies at a discount from the publisher.
>From the Introduction:
Lewis Carroll estis la plumnomo de Charles Lutwidge Dodgson, lekciisto pri
Matematiko ĉe Christ Church, Oksfordo. Lia fama rakonto originis dum remboata
vojaĝo sur Tamizo en Oksfordo la 4an de julio 1862. Dodgson estis akompanata
dum tiu ekskurso de Pastro Robinson Duckworth kaj tri junaj knabinoj: Alice
Liddell, dekjaraĝa filino de la Dekano de Christ Church, kaj ŝiaj du fratinoj,
Lorina kaj Edith, kiuj havis dek tri kaj ok jarojn respektive. Kiel evidentigas
la enkonduka poemo, la tri junulinoj petegis rakonton de Dodgson, kaj do li iom
heziteme komencis rakonti al ili fruan version de la historio kiu fariĝos
“Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland”. Sekve, estas nombro da duone kaŝitaj aludoj
al la kvin kunvojaĝintoj tra la tuta teksto de la verko, kiun oni fine eldonis
en 1865.
“Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland” estis unue tradukita en Esperanton de Elfric
Leofwin Kearney, brita pioniro de Esperanto kies “La Aventuroj de Alicio en
Mirlando” eldoniĝis en 1910. Hodiaŭ ĝi estas ankoraŭ havebla per eldono
publikigita de Evertype en 2009. En 1987 William Auld esperantigis partojn el
du ĉapitroj, “Freneza Tefesto” (‘A Mad Tea-Party’) kaj “La Historio de la
Ŝajnkelonio” (‘The Mock Turtle’s Story’), por la “Angla Antologio, Dua Parto,
1800–1960” (malfeliĉe nun elĉerpita).
La traduko de Donald Broadribb, Alico en Mirlando, estis unue eldonita en 1996
de Bookleaf Publishing (Bakers Hill, Okcidenta Aŭstralio). Ĉi tion sekvis dua
korektita eldono publikigita en 1999 de la rusa eldonejo Sezonoj, kiu poste
produktis trian eldonon en 2004. Alia eldono estis publikigita en 2000, post la
apero de la dua Sezonoj-eldono sed antaŭ tiu de la tria. Ĉi tiu versio estis
memeldonita interrete de Broadribb mem en PDF-formato sub la plena titolo “La
Aventuroj de Alico en Mirlando”, kun multe da korektoj kaj plibonigoj al la
teksto, inkluzive de pli klara sistemo de interpunkcio por parolata dialogo.
Sezonoj ŝajne ne sciis pri ĉi tiu PDF-teksto kiam ili produktis sian eldonon de
2004, ĉar en ĉi lasta mankas la ŝanĝoj faritaj en la interreta versio. Tial,
kvankam oni povus ĝuste nomi la PDFon de Broadribb la tria eldono laŭ ĝia dato
de publikigo, estas plej oportune nomi ĝin la “kvara eldono”, pro tio ke
Sezonoj jam uzis la nomon “tria eld!
ono” por sia teksto de 2004.
La libro kiun vi nun tenas enmane estas la kvina eldono, sen ambiguo. Ĝi
baziĝas sur la PDF-teksto de 2000 kaj korektas kelkajn preserarojn kaj
negravajn malkonformaĵojn kiuj restis (aŭ nove aperis) en tiu teksto; krome,
vortoj nun estas kursivigitaj multloke por konformi al uzo de kursivo por
montri vortemfazon en la angla originalo. Escepto estas la emfaza partikulo ja,
kiu estas lasita nekursiva je preskaŭ ĉiu apero, eĉ kiam ĝi respondas al
kursiva formo en la originalo, pro tio ke ja montras emfazon laŭ sia naturo
mem. Ekzemple, la plenda ekkrio de Alico “I do wish they would put their heads
down!” respondas al “mi volegas ke ili ja subpuŝu siajn kapojn!” sen kursivo.
Ĉi tiu kvina eldono ankaŭ enhavas du nove tradukitajn poemojn: neniam antaŭe
publikigitan tradukon de la enkonduka poemo priskribanta la boato-vojaĝon sur
Tamizo, kaj tute reverkitan version de la “vosto-verso” en Ĉapitro III, kiu nun
pli ekzakte konformas al la metro de la angla originalo.
Ni dankas al Donald Broadribb, kiu afable donis permeson publikigi ĉi tiun
novan eldonon de sia traduko, kaj kompleze havigis al ni novajn tradukojn de la
du poemoj supre menciitaj. Ni ankaŭ estas dankemaj pro liaj nepraj helpemo kaj
bonhumoro dum li pritraktis diversajn redaktorajn demandojn pri la fina formo
de la teksto. D-ro Broadribb ankaŭ jam esperantigis “Trans la Spegulo” kaj “La
Aventuroj de Alico sub la Tero”, kaj oni preparas Evertype-eldonojn de ĉi tiuj
verkoj por publikigo en la proksima estonteco.
Michael Everson kaj Patrick H. Wynne
==========
Michaael Everson
Evertype, http://alice-in-wonderland-books.com
Messages in this topic (1)
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5a. Re: NATLANG: Con-scripting a Hamer writing system
Posted by: "Paul Bennett" paul.w.benn...@gmail.com
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 12:24 pm ((PST))
Here's v0.1 of my work in progress...
http://sites.google.com/site/paulwbennett/Home/Hamer.pdf
--
Paul
Messages in this topic (14)
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5b. Re: NATLANG: Con-scripting a Hamer writing system
Posted by: "Paul Bennett" paul.w.benn...@gmail.com
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 4:03 pm ((PST))
On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 15:24:12 -0500, Paul Bennett
<paul.w.benn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here's v0.1 of my work in progress...
>
> http://sites.google.com/site/paulwbennett/Home/Hamer.pdf
I'm not sure how useful this will be in practice, but I've been thinking
about Aleph & Ayin, and Harmony.
If I renumber the vowel Categories as follows:
Bender Category I - Bennett Category '+'
Bender Category II - Bennett Category '-'
Bender Umlauted - Bennett Category ' '
Words, to reiterate in my new notation, can be one of the following:
At least one '+' component:
root(+)-suffix(+)
root(+)-suffix( )
root( )-suffix(+)
At least one '-' component:
root(-)-suffix(-)
root(-)-suffix( )
root( )-suffix(-)
Or, in one possible re-imagining:
Rising '+'-ness:
root( )-suffix(+)
root(-)-suffix( )
Falling '+'-ness:
root(+)-suffix( )
root( )-suffix(-)
Level '+'-ness:
root(+)-suffix(+)
root(-)-suffix(-)
So, I said all that in order to wonder out loud whether it would be enough
just to write the '+'-ness contour of a word (using Aleph for rising
'+'-ness, and Ayin for falling '+'-ness), instead of having to write out
the entire '+'-ness of each part of each full word.
More research is required, and is ongoing...
--
Paul
Messages in this topic (14)
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5c. Re: NATLANG: Con-scripting a Hamer writing system
Posted by: "Michael Everson" ever...@evertype.com
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 4:14 pm ((PST))
On 4 Mar 2012, at 00:03, Paul Bennett wrote:
> On Sat, 03 Mar 2012 15:24:12 -0500, Paul Bennett <paul.w.benn...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Here's v0.1 of my work in progress...
>>
>> http://sites.google.com/site/paulwbennett/Home/Hamer.pdf
Are you using only encoded characters?
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
Messages in this topic (14)
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6a. Sapir-Whorf economics paper
Posted by: "Sai" s...@saizai.com
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 12:49 pm ((PST))
Should be of interest:
http://faculty.som.yale.edu/keithchen/papers/LanguageWorkingPaper.pdf
http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3756
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/02/27/is-your-language-making-you-broke-and-fat-how-language-can-shape-thinking-and-behavior-and-how-it-cant/
- Sai
Messages in this topic (3)
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6b. Re: Sapir-Whorf economics paper
Posted by: "George Corley" gacor...@gmail.com
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 1:30 pm ((PST))
I'd have to read into it more carefully. I don't know enough statistics to
know at a glance whether this stuff is really above the level of chance.
The coding seems more solid than I had imagined before, though I feel
there are still problems with categorizing languages in his strong-FTR and
weak-FTR categories.
On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Sai <s...@saizai.com> wrote:
> Should be of interest:
>
> http://faculty.som.yale.edu/keithchen/papers/LanguageWorkingPaper.pdf
> http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3756
>
> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/02/27/is-your-language-making-you-broke-and-fat-how-language-can-shape-thinking-and-behavior-and-how-it-cant/
>
> - Sai
>
Messages in this topic (3)
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6c. Re: Sapir-Whorf economics paper
Posted by: "Nikolay Ivankov" lukevil...@gmail.com
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 2:54 pm ((PST))
Japanese drink considerably less wine than English and Americans, and they
suffer the heart attacks more seldom.
French drink considerably more wine that English an Americans, but still
they suffer heart attack more seldom.
Ergo: it doesn't matter how much you drink, but speaking English is
extremely dangeorus.
On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Sai <s...@saizai.com> wrote:
> Should be of interest:
>
> http://faculty.som.yale.edu/keithchen/papers/LanguageWorkingPaper.pdf
> http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=3756
>
> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/02/27/is-your-language-making-you-broke-and-fat-how-language-can-shape-thinking-and-behavior-and-how-it-cant/
>
> - Sai
>
Messages in this topic (3)
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7a. Re: A New Lang is Born
Posted by: "Virginia Keys" virginiak...@gmail.com
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 3:13 pm ((PST))
The basic stroke is shaped something like a claw, broad at one end and
pointed on the other. Consonants are represented by three of these strokes
connected end to end or parallel to each other. Vowels are represented by
two strokes, though some of them have a dot or circle instead of a claw
stroke. Each consonant has points at which it connects to other consonants
and also to vowels. Both vowels and consonants have places where a stroke
may be added to provide a connection point for another word.
Syllable structure is open, and sentences are read in VSO order. A verb is
written first, and the subject is connected to the first consonant, and the
object to the second consonant. When multiple nouns fill the same role, the
verb is connected to the and between them, so the and is read first, then
the two nouns. Prepositional phrases are connected to a verb's vowels and
prepositions merge with their objects. The grammar isn't fully developed yet
though by any means.
I'll work on trying to get links for images for those interested.
Messages in this topic (7)
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7b. Re: A New Lang is Born
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" goldyemo...@gmail.com
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 3:23 pm ((PST))
Thanks. Great description. Sounds confusing.
Nicole Thompson-Andrews
Pen name Mellissa Green
Budding novelist and Haiku and acrostic writer
Tweet me
@greenNovelist
----- Original Message -----
From: "Virginia Keys" <virginiak...@gmail.com>
To: <conl...@listserv.brown.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: A New Lang is Born
> The basic stroke is shaped something like a claw, broad at one end and
> pointed on the other. Consonants are represented by three of these strokes
> connected end to end or parallel to each other. Vowels are represented by
> two strokes, though some of them have a dot or circle instead of a claw
> stroke. Each consonant has points at which it connects to other consonants
> and also to vowels. Both vowels and consonants have places where a stroke
> may be added to provide a connection point for another word.
>
> Syllable structure is open, and sentences are read in VSO order. A verb is
> written first, and the subject is connected to the first consonant, and
> the
> object to the second consonant. When multiple nouns fill the same role,
> the
> verb is connected to the and between them, so the and is read first, then
> the two nouns. Prepositional phrases are connected to a verb's vowels and
> prepositions merge with their objects. The grammar isn't fully developed
> yet
> though by any means.
>
> I'll work on trying to get links for images for those interested.
Messages in this topic (7)
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7c. Re: A New Lang is Born
Posted by: "Virginia Keys" virginiak...@gmail.com
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 3:33 pm ((PST))
Ok, Pics are up here:
http://pics.conlang.org./v/Shateyo_2dws/
Messages in this topic (7)
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7d. Re: A New Lang is Born
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" elemti...@yahoo.com
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 7:39 pm ((PST))
--- On Sat, 3/3/12, Virginia Keys <virginiak...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ok, Pics are up here:
> http://pics.conlang.org./v/Shateyo_2dws/
Wow! I like it a lot!
For Nicole: it's like ivy growing up a wall!
Padraic
Messages in this topic (7)
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7e. Re: A New Lang is Born
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" goldyemo...@gmail.com
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 7:43 pm ((PST))
Thanks for keeping me in the loop.
Nicole Thompson-Andrews
Pen name Mellissa Green
Budding novelist and Haiku and acrostic writer
Tweet me
@greenNovelist
----- Original Message -----
From: "Padraic Brown" <elemti...@yahoo.com>
To: <conl...@listserv.brown.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: A New Lang is Born
> --- On Sat, 3/3/12, Virginia Keys <virginiak...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ok, Pics are up here:
>> http://pics.conlang.org./v/Shateyo_2dws/
>
> Wow! I like it a lot!
>
> For Nicole: it's like ivy growing up a wall!
>
> Padraic
Messages in this topic (7)
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7f. Re: A New Lang is Born
Posted by: "Patrick Dunn" pwd...@gmail.com
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 7:45 pm ((PST))
Gorgeousity and yum yum yum. It looks like you could write it very
effectively and efficiently with a calligraphy pen.
On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 9:39 PM, Padraic Brown <elemti...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --- On Sat, 3/3/12, Virginia Keys <virginiak...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Ok, Pics are up here:
> > http://pics.conlang.org./v/Shateyo_2dws/
>
> Wow! I like it a lot!
>
> For Nicole: it's like ivy growing up a wall!
>
> Padraic
>
--
Second Person, a chapbook of poetry by Patrick Dunn, is now available for
order from Finishing Line
Press<http://www.finishinglinepress.com/NewReleasesandForthcomingTitles.htm>
and
Amazon<http://www.amazon.com/Second-Person-Patrick-Dunn/dp/1599249065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1324342341&sr=8-2>.
Messages in this topic (7)
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