There are 2 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: agent of an antitransitive verb
From: MorphemeAddict
2. Tirelat and Czirehlat
From: Herman Miller
Messages
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1a. Re: agent of an antitransitive verb
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" lytl...@gmail.com
Date: Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:00 pm ((PDT))
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 7:46 PM, Adam Walker <carra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> But you wouldn't say/accept, "He died _by_ natural causes," woud you? _By_
> has really weird distribution.
> Adam
>
It doesn't sound weird, just a tad odd.
stevo
>
> On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 5:49 PM, MorphemeAddict <lytl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 6:02 PM, Adam Walker <carra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Death _by_ natural causes, BUT he died _from_ natural causes.
> > >
> >
> > It's not that clear-cut for me. "Death by natural causes", "died of/from
> > natural causes". The other versions are all completely understood, too,
> > just not how I would say them.
> >
> > stevo
> >
> > >
> > > Adam
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 4:55 PM, Eugene Oh <un.do...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Agreed with stevo, and along Roman's lines I also bring up "death by
> > > > chocolate" for your amusement and reference.
> > > >
> > > > FWIW the door opened by the wind is perfectly natural to me.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Eugene
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > >
> > > > On 22 Mar 2012, at 14:37, Roman Rausch <ara...@mail.ru> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >> I would say "He died of cancer", "He died by the sword", "He died
> > in a
> > > > car
> > > > > accident".
> > > > >
> > > > > Doing a search on Yahoo and using 'fire' instead of 'sword' (since
> > 'die
> > > > by
> > > > > the sword' is something of a stock phrase), I get the following
> > numbers
> > > > of
> > > > > results:
> > > > >
> > > > > "died of cancer": 1300 000
> > > > > "died from cancer": 160 000
> > > > > "died by cancer": 4000
> > > > >
> > > > > "died by fire": 15 000
> > > > > "died from fire": 5000
> > > > > "died of fire": 5000
> > > > >
> > > > > "died from injuries": 160 000
> > > > > "died of injuries": 70 000
> > > > > "died by injuries": 44
> > > > >
> > > > > "died in a car accident": 340 000
> > > > > "died of a car accident": 10 000
> > > > > "died from a car accident": 7000
> > > > > "died by a car accident": 2500
> > > > >
> > > > > If this is in any way reliable, it would seem that the directness
> of
> > > > > causation matters in order for the by-phrase to be acceptable, so
> > that:
> > > > fire
> > > > >> car accident > cancer > injuries.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Messages in this topic (13)
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2. Tirelat and Czirehlat
Posted by: "Herman Miller" hmil...@prismnet.com
Date: Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:25 pm ((PDT))
Czirehlat was originally a "branch" of the Tirelat language, one of many
versions, which I set aside to be a stable reference point when I was
messing around with Tirelat phonology. It had some idiosyncratic
spellings like the "cz" in the name (which represented /tS/), as well as
"cg" /dZ/. Now I'm thinking of it more as a related language, which
could be useful in reconstructing earlier versions of Tirelat.
Looking at the vowels, Czirehlat must have separated from the main
Tirelat line after the i~e and u~o splits, if those happened at all.
More interesting is the case of ë~y, which frequently correspond with
diphthongs (ue, ui, eu, iu) in Czirehlat. There are also instances of
Tir. /ë/ = Cz. /e/ or /o/.
The consonants match Modern Tirelat fairly closely with a couple of
exceptions: the /l/ and /r/ next to voiceless consonants have not been
devoiced (although the voiceless /l_0/ and /r_0/ already exist), and the
fricatives after /n/ (in words like "minza") have not been replaced by
affricates as in standard Tirelat ("minża"). The most obvious difference
is the affricates: Czirehlat distinguishes between alveolar (tz, dz) and
post-alveolar (cz, cg). So these must have been distinct in Early Modern
Tirelat, although it's possible that the alveolar /ts/ and /dz/ could
just have been sequences of /t/ + /s/, /d/ + /z/. But they do appear
initially, where clusters such as *ks and *bz are absent. So it seems
likely that both alveolar and post-alveolar affricates existed in early
Tirelat.
Messages in this topic (1)
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