Hi
> > 1. > > This particular issue was not brought to the attention of coreboot > leadership by anybody at Google or Intel. Someone in coreboot's small > business ecosystem asked us to look into CB:84356 > <https://review.coreboot.org/c/coreboot/+/84356>, which later spawned > other patches. The subtext is that upstream development is very difficult > and spending days squabbling over a tiny part of a spec that we don't > control (FSP in this case, but the same is true of SBI, TFA, UEFI, etc) is > counterproductive. What caught the leadership team's attention was the > introduction of personal insults into the mix which made a heated debate > between two individuals much worse. We expect better from everyone, > especially senior members of the community. > > A spec, like any text, needs interpretation which means it can require a discussion to work with it. How to implement a spec for sure requires discussion. Specs also have flaws and discussions on it are useful to prevent them. Tiny parts of the spec can have important implications, so things can get heated... So I disagree with this statement. (Not sure why but my email editor does not quote the number of the argument correctly. Sorry for that). The personal insult is basically "did you read the spec". I don't think "RTFM" is particularly insulting and certainly not worth banning someone for a year. > 1. > > We acknowledge that Nico has a certain communication style, and like > others in this thread we've each been on the receiving end of it and have > rationalized brushing it off for one reason or another. However, this does > not work in aggregate within a community or organization where many people > can take it many different ways, especially given that we're a global > organization with people of varying levels of language proficiency. > > As indicated by this thread a lot of people really like working with Nico. Do we really want our community to have the lowest common denominator of what everyone can stomach communication-wise, determine who can participate? I don't think so. > 1. > > One can create a hostile environment even without overt actions such > as hitting someone, yelling profanity, inappropriate contact, etc. To put > this in another context, imagine the storm that would ensue if your > company's HR department responded to complaints of sexual harassment by a > guy named Bob in the sales department by saying "We've known for years that > Bob likes to flirt with his coworkers and we have asked him to tone it > down. Some have told us that they don't mind too much, and those who > complain probably just misunderstand his communication style. Besides, a > lot of people like Bob and he is a really great salesman!" Eventually it > comes crashing down with more and more collateral damage the longer it's > left unchecked. > > Overzealous HR departments can do at least as much damage as leaving alleged bad actors unchecked. This is precisely what is happening right now. I think these leadership decisions to ban away the most competent people in our project are poor decisions (it does not seem to be the first time) and have a chilling effect on others. The cost benefit ratio is not good here. Arthur Heymans On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 8:09 AM David Hendricks via coreboot < coreboot@coreboot.org> wrote: > Hi everyone, > Thanks for the feedback, both public and private. As with similar > situations in the past this was not an easy decision, and there are > arguments on both sides. It's always hard to lose a valued member of the > community, even temporarily, but sometimes it becomes necessary. I'll try > to elaborate on a few points and respond to the above questions in > aggregate below (even then this got really lengthy): > > 1. > > Contact info for the leadership team can be found at > https://coreboot.org/leadership.html. We also have an arbitration team > composed of people other than the leadership who you can reach out to for > help resolving problems like the ones mentioned in my earlier e-mail. > 2. > > This particular issue was not brought to the attention of coreboot > leadership by anybody at Google or Intel. Someone in coreboot's small > business ecosystem asked us to look into CB:84356 > <https://review.coreboot.org/c/coreboot/+/84356>, which later spawned > other patches. The subtext is that upstream development is very difficult > and spending days squabbling over a tiny part of a spec that we don't > control (FSP in this case, but the same is true of SBI, TFA, UEFI, etc) is > counterproductive. What caught the leadership team's attention was the > introduction of personal insults into the mix which made a heated debate > between two individuals much worse. We expect better from everyone, > especially senior members of the community. > 3. > > We acknowledge that Nico has a certain communication style, and like > others in this thread we've each been on the receiving end of it and have > rationalized brushing it off for one reason or another. However, this does > not work in aggregate within a community or organization where many people > can take it many different ways, especially given that we're a global > organization with people of varying levels of language proficiency. > > One can create a hostile environment even without overt actions such > as hitting someone, yelling profanity, inappropriate contact, etc. To put > this in another context, imagine the storm that would ensue if your > company's HR department responded to complaints of sexual harassment by a > guy named Bob in the sales department by saying "We've known for years that > Bob likes to flirt with his coworkers and we have asked him to tone it > down. Some have told us that they don't mind too much, and those who > complain probably just misunderstand his communication style. Besides, a > lot of people like Bob and he is a really great salesman!" Eventually it > comes crashing down with more and more collateral damage the longer it's > left unchecked. > 4. With regards to minutes of our meeting, no such document exists. If > it did then I would be skeptical of sharing it for legal reasons. Rest > assured that we operate in the open as much as possible, and our decisions > are recorded in forums such as the periodic leadership meetings. On rare > occasions where we make a closed-door decision we post relevant details on > this mailing list ASAP. Private meetings are rare and ad-hoc. Some have to > do with SFC business such as expense approval or GPL matters, but most of > the time they're about reports of misconduct and are often centered around > one particular person (this should tell you something). > 5. This enforcement action was not prompted by a single incident, but > by many over the last few years. Some people here may recall that Nico's > +2/-2 privileges were revoked in response to a previous incident. Earlier > this year we met with him at his request to negotiate reinstating these > privileges, which we did. Part of the agreement was that he would > self-moderate his comments and not get involved in other people's > arguments, e.g. don't show up and pour gas on the flames. We were clear > about what type of behavior was problematic and what consequences were to > be expected.It took about 7 months for this agreement to be violated, which > fits into the pattern of past incidents where this individual has received > a slap on the wrist only to repeat previous behaviors a few months later. > > > Our default position was that this would result in a permanent ban since > this has gone on for so long and softer disciplinary measures abjectly > failed. That seemed harsh in this case, so we made a concession to only > implement a ban of one year to see if it would make any difference. One > year from now the terms will be the same but there will not be any more > chances. > > October 2, 2024 7:27 AM, "Angel Pons" <th3fan...@gmail.com > <th3fan...@gmail.com?to=%22angel%20pons%22%20%3cth3fan...@gmail.com%3E>> > wrote: > > Hello list, > On Wed, Oct 2, 2024 at 7:40 AM David Hendricks via coreboot < > coreboot@coreboot.org> wrote: > > Dear coreboot community members, > > Recently there was some unpleasant activity on Gerrit which violated our > community’s guidelines regarding respectful conduct. In this case the > coreboot leadership team determined that the behavior in question fit a > long pattern about which the individual had been previously warned. As a > result we have decided to remove Nico from our community for a period of 1 > year. We hope this will be a sufficient cooling off period and that we will > not need to take more drastic steps in the future. > > David, I see you are one of the three members of the leadership team [1]. > Could you please provide the following, privately if necessary? > - the minutes for the meeting in which the decision was made (which might > contain references to the documents below; if the meeting minutes are not > available, I would like to know why) > - links to the aforementioned "unpleasant activity on Gerrit" > - the guidelines from [2] or [3] (I could not find a document called > "community guidelines") that were violated > Not knowing what happened nor why makes me afraid to contribute, lest the > same fate befall me as well. Especially considering that Nico has been a > role model for me as I was learning the ropes of firmware development, so > most of the things about coreboot as well as authoring and reviewing > changes I have learned from him. > > As we've said in the past, we trust that developers in our community are > acting in good faith and can generally resolve issues on their own. In > cases where two sides cannot reach an agreement, for example in a code > review, we expect all engagement to be respectful and to help drive toward > a solution. For technical matters this often means starting a mailing list > discussion, bringing an issue up during the coreboot leadership meeting, > starting a task force to tackle a large problem, or other means of > gathering input and collaborating. > > Personal matters should be brought to the leadership team directly. We'll > listen to any complaints or frustrations, but cannot tolerate personal > attacks made on Gerrit, the mailing list, or other forums. It is always > required that we treat others in a professional manner and communicate with > respect, regardless of how strongly we may feel about a particular issue. > > A tiny remark about professional manner: when interacting with others I > know, I like sprinkling a bit of humour in my messages, but without being > disrespectful towards anyone (no dark humour and no making fun of others) > or compromising my knowledge/abilities (do not overdo it and consider that > not everyone might get it). I believe this does not make me unprofessional, > but I am happy to listen in case anyone disagrees. > Other than that, I agree with the above, but I also believe it is > important to be aware that misunderstandings can and will happen, > especially considering that people from all over the world can contribute, > each with their own culture and tradition. Not everyone is a native English > speaker (even if it does not seem like it, I am not). Not everyone is > capable of noticing when a discussion is getting too heated/tense, let > alone do something to end it before it is too late (I am trying to get > better at this). Not everyone communicates the same way, e.g. autistic > people tend to communicate in direct and literal ways that can be > misinterpreted by non-autistic people [4] (I am autistic, I have had this > happen before), whereas other autistic people have no issues with this > communication style. > I believe that the information in [4] (especially the list of 12 rules) is > valuable and I would appreciate having them integrated into our own > guidelines, although I agree they should be guidelines rather than > strictly-enforced rules: misunderstandings are *still* inevitable and will > happen. In case of a misunderstanding, I think the most sensible way to > proceed is for someone (preferably one of the participants) to notice that > "something feels wrong" and remain calm, disengaging from the discussion if > needed (e.g. wait before replying to an email or review comment). If > possible, try to bring it up without pointing fingers, e.g. "I feel this > discussion is heating up: is there anything I can do to help, or am I > reading into things?" or (quoting a response) "This sounded quite rude to > me, was it intentional?". This requires being able to recognise that > tension is building up and restraining one's impulses; I understand this is > not trivial to accomplish, especially if one is susceptible to getting > angry (e.g. me). > > If anybody feels that a discussion has become too heated, or that somebody > is not being treated respectfully, or are simply unsure of how to proceed > in a difficult situation, please reach out to the coreboot leadership and > we will chart a path forward together. > _______________________________________________ > coreboot mailing list -- coreboot@coreboot.org > To unsubscribe send an email to coreboot-le...@coreboot.org > > Best regards, > Angel > [1]: https://www.coreboot.org/leadership.html > [2]: https://doc.coreboot.org/community/code_of_conduct.html > [3]: https://doc.coreboot.org/contributing/gerrit_guidelines.html > [4]: > https://warwick.ac.uk/services/socialinclusion/projects/letstalkaboutdisability/autism/2022_twip_autism_and_communication.pdf > > > > _______________________________________________ > coreboot mailing list -- coreboot@coreboot.org > To unsubscribe send an email to coreboot-le...@coreboot.org >
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