On 3/26/2017 9:29 PM, Øyvind Eide wrote:
Dear Martin,
this is dangerous territory. Do we need to go there? We may have to open up all
sorts of boxes including those owned by language philosophers and semioticians.
An utterance is made by someone, surely. But is a title an utterance? It is not
purely either or, but is it not more langue than parole?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langue_and_parole
I think one can find many different views on what information is in the
humanities and many of them would be quite different from Shannon. Personally,
I think thinking based on dialogism makes a lot of sense.
Do we have to enter this territory? Do we need to express opinions on these
things in CRM?
Dear Øyvind,
Clearly, one principle of the CRM is, never interpret a term! So, we are
not concerned settling disputes about what information or an utterance
is. We are concerned with the consistency and effectiveness of
definitions for our information purposes. So, for me the problem is a
simple question of disambiguation of identity.
Since you wrote (and I agree) "E35 Title can only be used when such a
string is actually are used as a title...." this implies that (a) the
same string may be used twice as a title and (b) translates differently
in these cases.
This means, that the identity of the title as described above consists
of the string + context. Otherwise, the scope note is inconsistent.
This context can either be determined as (1) language, (2) one work of
art, (3) multiple works of art intentionally referring to the same
source - F1 Work or
"loans" from other F1 Work.
This creates a precedent with respect to identity of information.
Equally obviously, if we create in the CRM an identifier for "mehr
Licht" by Goethe, true or not, and want to trace arguments about the
interpretation and reality in an information system, we must, if we want
or not, carry the context with us. So, we have two choices: Either we
keep the identity of an E73 provenance independent, and introduce
another class for information object use context, or we imply a concept
of provenance as part of the identity of the information object.
Equally obviously, it is impossible in general to trace exact
provenance. We could, however, in the scope note, describe the context
concept behind an information object in a more general way, which
implies specialization from case to case.
A relevant application are tombstone and other short inscriptions.
Epigraphy experts regard the same text on another stone as different.
We may even talk about two message levels. For instance "r.i.p." as a
generic message in the tombstone context, and "r.i.p." as a personal
message on a
particular tombstone.
Or we say r.i.p. to the issue;-)
Cheers,
martin
Regards,
Øyvind
24. mar. 2017 kl. 12.50 skrev martin <mar...@ics.forth.gr>:
Dear Oeyvind,
I agree with the scope note, given the interpretation we decided. I wonder
however if there is a
deeper issue here:
In Germany there exists the saying that dying Goethe uttered "mehr Licht" ("more
light"). I reused this proposition yesterday, because I wanted to read a newspaper.
Claude Shannon defined information as a message with a known provenance, which
is the most accepted theory in computer science.
That would mean that the identity of an Information Object is a tuple
<content,sender>, rather than <content>.
If we accept that, we enter another hell of arguments about what the identity
of the sender is. That is easy for a Title, but quite tricky for the
non-smoking symbol.
Question: Should we touch also this front, or are we sure that "more light" is always
"more light" ?
In other words, may be a title actually deviates from an appellation in that it
adds to its identity the provenance, which in turn allows for translation?
best,
martin
On 24/3/2017 11:45 πμ, Øyvind Eide wrote:
Dear all,
Here is my homework for Issue 260:
1. E35: Accepted the comment made by Oyvind that the scope note of E35 Title is
misleading, since it refers to something functioning a title, not having the
form of a title, it is decided to keep the Title, to update scope note. This HW
is assigned to Oyvind
I have changed the first paragraph of the scope note
Old scope note for E35:
This class comprises the names assigned to works, such as texts, artworks or
pieces of music.
Titles are proper noun phrases or verbal phrases, and should not be confused
with generic object names such as “chair”, “painting” or “book” (the latter are
common nouns that stand for instances of E55 Type). Titles may be assigned by
the creator of the work itself, or by a social group.
This class also comprises the translations of titles that are used as
surrogates for the original titles in different social contexts.
Proposed new version:
“This class comprises textual strings that within a cultural context can be
clearly identified as titles due to their form. Being a subclass of E41
Appellation, E35 Title can only be used when such a string is actually are used
as a title of a work, such as a text, an artwork, or a piece of music.
Titles are proper noun phrases or verbal phrases, and should not be confused
with generic object names such as “chair”, “painting” or “book” (the latter are
common nouns that stand for instances of E55 Type). Titles may be assigned by
the creator of the work itself, or by a social group.
This class also comprises the translations of titles that are used as
surrogates for the original titles in different social contexts.”
—————————
2. E49 Time Appellation: to keep but it should be merged with Date and it
should be decided if they keep the same name (Oyvind)
E50 Date should be marked obsolete. I have changed the inheritance, the first
paragraph of the scope note, and added two examples.
Old definition of E49 Time Appellation:
Subclass of : E41 Appellation
Superclass of: E50 Date
Scope Note:
This class comprises all forms of names or codes, such as historical periods
which are characteristically used to refer to a specific E52 Time-Span. This
includes human- and machine readable dates and timestamps.
The instances of E49 Time Appellation may vary in their degree of precision,
and they may be relative to other time frames, “Before Christ” for example.
Instances of E52 Time-Span are often defined by reference to a cultural period
or an event e.g. ‘the duration of the Ming Dynasty’.
Examples:
• “Meiji” [Japanese term for a specific time-span]
• “1st half of the XX century”
• “Quaternary”
• “1215 Hegira” [a date in the Islamic calendar]
• “Last century”
New definition of E49 Time Appellation:
Subclass of : E41 Appellation
Scope Note:
This class comprises all forms of names or codes, such as historical periods,
and dates, which are characteristically used to refer to a specific E52
Time-Span.
The instances of E49 Time Appellation may vary in their degree of precision,
and they may be relative to other time frames, “Before Christ” for example.
Instances of E52 Time-Span are often defined by reference to a cultural period
or an event e.g. ‘the duration of the Ming Dynasty’.
Examples:
• “Meiji” [Japanese term for a specific time-span]
• “1st half of the XX century”
• “Quaternary”
• “1215 Hegira” [a date in the Islamic calendar]
• “Last century”
• “2013-10-05”
• “Mon May 19 22:39:23 CET 2014”
Kind regards,
Øyvind
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_______________________________________________
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--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Martin Doerr | Vox:+30(2810)391625 |
Research Director | Fax:+30(2810)391638 |
| Email: mar...@ics.forth.gr |
|
Center for Cultural Informatics |
Information Systems Laboratory |
Institute of Computer Science |
Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) |
|
N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, |
GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece |
|
Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl |
--------------------------------------------------------------
