Dear all, Dear all,
It is correct as Franco writes, that a group can be used to model the speakers of a language. The class E74 Group is a very strong mechanism and can be used to model almost any relationship between actors, that is, the members of the group has the relationship indicated by the type of the group. The classes E85 Joining and E86 Leaving and the properties P143 joined (was joined by): E39 Actor P144 joined with (gained member by) E74 Group P145 separated (left by) E39 Actor P146 separated from (lost member by) E74 Group enable us to model the time aspect. At least in my opinion, the class E55 Tyoes and P2 has type can be used to model persons abilities like speaking a language in the cases where time is not a concern. On the other hand this timelessness give an impression that a type indicate a trait or some immanent characteristics of a person. It is a philosophical question whether language skills characterize a person in such a way. There is an ongoing issue 329 in CRM about states. In connection with this issue there is a table with an overview: “CRM Properties that may have shorter temporal validity than their domain and range” http://cidoc-crm.org/sites/default/files/table%20of%20issue%20329.docx Among these P2 has type is listed. It is still not decided how this time specific validity should be modelled in CRM. Best, Christian-Emil ________________________________________ From: Crm-sig <crm-sig-boun...@ics.forth.gr> on behalf of Franco Niccolucci <franco.niccolu...@gmail.com> Sent: 24 August 2019 19:45 To: Maria Jose de Almeida Cc: crm-sig@ics.forth.gr; "Runa, Lucília"; Barbedo, Francisco Subject: Re: [Crm-sig] EMAIL SUSPEITO: P72 has Language Dear Maria, all the problem comes from the fact that the CRM usually models what humans DO, not what they ARE. To model the latter, it is therefore necessary to introduce an event in which the person participates, as Thanasis suggested. What he proposes is correct, but considering a language instrumental to the activity of learning it sounds a bit awkward to my ear: common sense would consider so a handbook, an app, a teacher etc. Also, such activity may be problematic with native languages where an intentional action (= activity) is difficult to attribute to a few months old baby. >From your description I believe that you are interested in documenting the >factual knowledge of a language, not that/how it was learnt, so I suggest the >following approach. In this specific case you might use membership in an E74 Group, similar to what is suggested in the scope note of E74 for ‘nationality'. Thus you would have very large groupings of speakers of different languages, and speaking one of them would correspond to being member of that specific group, e.g. Maria P107 is member of E74 Group 'Portuguese speakers’. Incidentally, this option would also enable you (if you wish) to distinguish among the levels of knowledge of that language via P107.1 kind of member E55 Type ’native speaker’. Thus, also the following would hold for you: Maria P107 is member of E74 Group ‘English speakers’, but with P107.1 kind of member E55 Type ’second language speaker’. Further flexibility can be introduced with this P107.1 if required, like “writer”, “translator”, etc. Best Franco Prof. Franco Niccolucci Director, VAST-LAB PIN - U. of Florence Scientific Coordinator ARIADNEplus - PARTHENOS Editor-in-Chief ACM Journal of Computing and Cultural Heritage (JOCCH) Piazza Ciardi 25 59100 Prato, Italy > Il giorno 23 ago 2019, alle ore 16:17, Maria Jose de Almeida > <m-jose.alme...@dglab.gov.pt> ha scritto: > > > Dear all, > > As some of you may know, I’m working in the Portuguese National Archives an > we are building a new data infrastructure using CIDOC-CRM for archival > description. > When describing biographical information it’s common to state that some > person was fluent in some language, or languages, apart from his/her native > one. Using current archival descriptions standards [ISAD(G) 3.2.2; EAD > <bioghist>] this is represented within a text, usually a very long text > string with information of distinct natures. So far we have been able to > decompose the different elements and represent them adequately as instances > of CIDOC-CRM classes and link them trough the suitable properties. But we are > struggling with this one... > We cannot link a Person (E21) to a language (E56) and neither use multiple > instantiation, as it has been suggested in other cases > (http://www.cidoc-crm.org/Issue/ID-258-p72-quantification), because Person > (E21) and Linguistic Object (E33) are disjoint. > The only way around I can think of is to consider someone’s speech as a > linguistic object and state that that person participated in the creation of > that linguistic object. > But it seams a rather odd solution as we would have to crate individuals for > someone’s speech in Portuguese, in French, in Russian, etc. and describe them > in a very broader manner. Because when it is stated that a person is fluent > in any of those languages, typically what is meant is that that person could > interact with other speakers of the same language, mainly trough an oral > discourse, or read written documents. Not exactly the same as creating > documents in a foreign language, situation which is much more straightforward > to represent. > > Any thoughts that may help us? > Thanks! > > -- > Maria José de Almeida > Técnica Superior > > Direção de Serviços de Inovação e Administração Eletrónica > Telefone (direto): 210 037 343 > Telefone (geral): 210 037 100 > m-jose.alme...@dglab.gov.pt > > _______________________________________________ > Crm-sig mailing list > Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr > http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig _______________________________________________ Crm-sig mailing list Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
