Dear George, all “during” sounds fine.
In my opinion, not because “at” is locative and implies a place, which is not true: see e.g. "at present", "at midnight", "at some point in time". But because it implies precision, an exact point in time, at the time granularity level assumed, so that “at 5PM” means that arriving at 17:01 you are late. Events always have a duration, even milliseconds. Thus, since the range of the inverse property is event, “during (event X)” sounds correct, “at (event X)” would not. “During" is also used in the scope note “... encountered or observed as present during the event”. The story would be different - and “at” correct - if the range were an E61 Time Primitive. Best Franco Prof. Franco Niccolucci Director, VAST-LAB PIN - U. of Florence Scientific Coordinator ARIADNEplus Technology Director 4CH Editor-in-Chief ACM Journal of Computing and Cultural Heritage (JOCCH) Piazza Ciardi 25 59100 Prato, Italy > Il giorno 22 ott 2021, alle ore 15:28, Eleni Tsoulouha via Crm-sig > <crm-sig@ics.forth.gr> ha scritto: > > Hi all, > > Not that i m 100% confident concerning my intuitions for English, but I think > that *during* is more suited for relations btw temporal entities (where the > one serves as a temporal frame of sorts for the other) OR for relations btw > temporal entities and their location-times (aka timespans). an encountered > object is neither of those things, so maybe encountered in would do best?? > > Btw., i think that this reading is more consistent with how we've been using > the adverbial throughout the CRM (again, i may be wrong). > > all the best, > > Eleni > > > > On 10/22/2021 3:59 PM, Robert Sanderson via Crm-sig wrote: >> >> +1 to changing it from at, which definitely implies location. >> >> object_encountered_during seems good to me, thank you Melanie! >> >> Rob >> >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 8:38 AM melanie.roche--- via Crm-sig >> <crm-sig@ics.forth.gr> wrote: >> Dear George, >> >> I share your concerns. Being unfamiliar with CRMsci in general and O19 in >> particular, when I first read your mesage I immediately assumed that the >> inverse property pointed to a place. As a non-native English speaker, I >> agree that there is a very strong locative flavour to the preposition "at", >> and it would be totally counter-intuitive to associate it with an event. I >> also feel the same applies (though less strongly) to "in". >> >> If we want to exclude any kind of locative flavour, would the preposition >> "during" be appropriate, or would it only work for some events but not all? >> >> Best, >> >> Mélanie. >> >> >> >> De : "George Bruseker via Crm-sig" <crm-sig@ics.forth.gr> >> A : "crm-sig" <Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr> >> Date : 22/10/2021 13:43 >> Objet : [Crm-sig] CRMSci O19 Property Labels Minor Correction? >> Envoyé par : "Crm-sig" <crm-sig-boun...@ics.forth.gr> >> >> >> >> Dear all, >> >> I am manually correcting some ontology files (horror) and changing the >> nomenclature from the previous names for O19 which were: >> >> has found object >> (was object found by) >> >> up until version 1.2.6 of the document. >> >> Then it changed, rightly (mostly), to: >> >> encountered object >> was object encountered at >> >> which is how it has been ever since. >> >> So, what's my problem? The inverse property label sounds like we named it >> poorly? Particularly the preposition 'at' has a locative flavour that to me >> would indicate that the object pointed at would be a place. The object >> pointed at, however, is of course the encounter event. >> >> I do not remember if we made the choice above on purpose or if this is just >> a mistake, but reading it now it strikes me as not the best choice. >> >> I think typically we would use 'by' (which is also problematic since sounds >> like it should point to an actor) or maybe 'in' which again sounds slightly >> locative, although might work better with an event. >> >> Anyhow, does anyone else see this as a problem or is it just me? >> >> Best, >> >> George_______________________________________________ >> Crm-sig mailing list >> Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr >> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig >> >> Découvrez toute la programmation culturelle de la rentrée à la BnF >> Pass BnF lecture/culture : bibliothèques, expositions, conférences, concerts >> en illimité pour 15 € / an – Acheter en ligne >> >> Avant d'imprimer, pensez à l'environnement. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Crm-sig mailing list >> Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr >> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig >> >> >> -- >> Rob Sanderson >> Director for Cultural Heritage Metadata >> Yale University >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Crm-sig mailing list >> >> Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr >> http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig > _______________________________________________ > Crm-sig mailing list > Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr > http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig _______________________________________________ Crm-sig mailing list Crm-sig@ics.forth.gr http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sig
