I'd like to add, since we discuss the question of observable situations
and the results of observation in continuation, the painting as a result
of an observation should be modeled adequately.
On 10/27/2021 8:21 PM, Martin Doerr via Crm-sig wrote:
Dear Florian,
Nice Problem! Actually I do not regard it a Simulation, because it
does not introduce theories to extrapolate into the future or to fit
to observational data for theory testing. I think it is simply data
Evaluation, which results in an estimate for a place. I'd regard the
calculated viewpoint as a declarative E53 Place /P168 defined by/ :
the calculated value, which /P189 approximates/ the phenomenal place
of the image taking activity. The direction of taking an image is not
modeled in the CRM yet as well as some other parameters of observations.
In my opinion, the image itself can be seen as a measurement of
optical qualities of a section of a physical feature, the surface of
earth, or an observation in the case of painting. Both would "P138
represent" this section. In CRMdig, we took digital photos as a kind
of composite Dimension, because it provides quantitative light
emission data, but we did not consolidate this with taking the image
as a Visual Item, a kind of Information Object. This is not a
contradiction.
Both, the painting and the photo can represent identifiable details
and landmarks that allow for matching them with reality, or an assumed
common reality.
So far, a quick thought. I think, a nice *issue*, to elaborate the
Dimension - Visula Item question, view directions and sections of
physical features defined by view focus.
Best,
Martin
On 10/26/2021 10:58 PM, Øyvind Eide via Crm-sig wrote:
Dear Florian,
thank you for this interesting puzzle!
Before I venture into concrete suggestions, allow me to ask some
question in the form of assumptions you can confirm, reject, or discuss:
The establishment of a hypothetical viewpoint is used to establish a
location of the canvas. That means the following:
1. There is a 3D model of a landscape where each point (also those
making up lines and polygons) are normal (x,y,z) coordinates in some
coordinate system.
2. The hypothetical/assumed viewpoint of the photographer or the
painter is a point in the same coordinate system.
3. Each point of the canvas (representing a painting or a
photography) being put into the landscape is a point in the same
coordinate system. Thus the canvas as a whole is an area in that
coordinate system.
If this is so, we might very well talk about something added to a
pre-existing 3D model. If not, I would be happy to be enlightened and
hopefully manage to dig further.
All the best,
Øyvind
Am 26.10.2021 um 10:28 schrieb Florian Kräutli via Crm-sig
<crm-sig@ics.forth.gr <mailto:crm-sig@ics.forth.gr>>:
Dear all,
I have a data modelling challenge I would need some advice with.
We work with a collection of geographic depictions of Switzerland.
This includes photographs, paintings, prints, sketches, etc. We
collaborate with Smapshot <http://smapshot.heig-vd.ch/> who
developed a method for aligning landscape photographs with a 3D
model of the physical landscape. An example from our own collection
can be seen here: https://smapshot.heig-vd.ch/visit/204037
<https://smapshot.heig-vd.ch/visit/204037>
Using this method we can determine the possible viewpoint of a
photographer when taking a picture, or the viewpoint from which an
artist may have produced sketches of a landscape. In terms of data,
we obtain the simulated position and view of the photographer/artist
as coordinates (lat/long), altitude, azimuth, tilt, roll and focal view.
I'm debating now how to model this obtained data in CIDOC-CRM. I
would suggest a S7 Simulation or Prediction for the process of using
the Smapshot app to determine a viewpoint of an image. This process
P140 assigns an attribute to a E36 Visual Item, namely that the E36
Visual Item (the image) P138 Represents a /view. /What is this view?
Can we say it is a E53 Place? Or is there a more suitable entity for
describing such a (simulated) view?
One could also say that the data defines a E53 Place from which an
image has been created. However, while we can say this with some
degree of certainty for photographs, a painting of a landscape might
have been created using a combination of several viewpoints as well
as, of course, use of imagination on and off-site, so I would be
hesitant to make a statement about the physical location of an
artist when creating a painting.
I would be grateful for your input!
All best,
Florian
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------------------------------------
Dr. Martin Doerr
Honorary Head of the
Center for Cultural Informatics
Information Systems Laboratory
Institute of Computer Science
Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
Vox:+30(2810)391625
Email:mar...@ics.forth.gr
Web-site:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
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--
------------------------------------
Dr. Martin Doerr
Honorary Head of the
Center for Cultural Informatics
Information Systems Laboratory
Institute of Computer Science
Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
Vox:+30(2810)391625
Email: mar...@ics.forth.gr
Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
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